The Importance of Being Social on Social Media To Grow Your Instagram
Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives.
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Hey guys, welcome to the trances collective podcast with generation I'm here with my awesome guest today Wayne.
Wayne Moran 1:03
Jenna Redfield 1:04
Yeah, awesome. So do you want to introduce yourself?
Wayne Moran 1:08
Wow, I don't get it off. Its way Moran travel photographer. Instagram dude.
Jenna Redfield 1:15
Okay. I like the dude, because I feel like that makes you unique. A little bit. We have a lot of women and twins this collective. So we have a male voice.
Wayne Moran 1:24
Yes. So how I'm an older voice all
Jenna Redfield 1:28
I think you might be are all discussed. But that should be a proud achievement. Now you're this. You're relevant
Wayne Moran 1:34
to your blog earlier. podcast earlier, it was like, wait, everyone's young.
Jenna Redfield 1:40
I know. And that's why I think that a lot of older people are scared to jump on Instagram, because it's just seems foreign to them. But what are your thoughts on that you feel like you I feel like you understand the platform?
Wayne Moran 1:52
Yes, but part of my overall history will get us to that point. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 1:56
so let's get to that. Okay, so
Jenna Redfield 1:57
tell us your story.
Wayne Moran 2:00
My story. Long, long time ago, I was blogging way back in 2003. Oh, wow. So a very long time, doing all kinds of things from kind of creative stuff to feel good stuff to cultural commentary stuff. And I actually have those. So I've pointed those from podcast to podcasts or sorry, from blog to blog over the years. Then, once upon a time, well, gosh, we have to go away. Yeah. Okay, go back to the beginning back to college. I remember having a camera in college, but I don't remember how I got it. And I tell this story. I don't think I stole it. I don't remember anyone giving it to me. And I just had no idea how I got it. But I was the guy taking pictures at events, concerts and things and people would respond to those events. They are those images, they really liked them. And they gave me feedback from that. Shortly after college camera went away, and I was gone for years. But about 2003 also got a camera. Actually, I got a camera for my wife. And then within a couple months, I stole it. And I looked up yesterday, flicker showed up in 2004. And I was probably one of the early people on flicker. So and I'm a technical person in reality, I'm really a software engineer. That's my main gig. Yeah. I understood quickly how to get found on Google get found on flicker or any other social media as they pop up. And I was disciplined to doing that. So I had the technical skill also to use the software to edit images. So in the early days of flicker, I was on the front pages of flicker all the time. So I was able to get feedback from people. So it was that feedback that helped me to understand what people like. Yeah. And Frank, all of social media is the same to me. Anyway, it's a way to get feedback from your audience. Yeah.
Jenna Redfield 4:06
So how did that go from Flickr to Instagram because I know Flickr still around, but I don't it's obviously not where it was back in the day,
Wayne Moran 4:13
right? It's still relatively active. There's a lot of people out there, but post flicker there was 500 pX or PEX 900. Okay, so that went relatively large, what happened, flicker got bought out by Yahoo. They treated their photographers weird. It was a little less community. It just changed and photographers and artists get all up in arms when things change. You'll see that on Instagram all the time when everyone just freaks out and dies. So there had been several environments over the years. The P 500. Or I can't even remember what is the name of that 500
Unknown Speaker 4:52
pixels or something that
Wayne Moran 4:55
pixel center pixels, I think, yep. So I had done that for a while with equal success. And then a friend of mine who's actually a model recommended I get on Instagram. And by that point, I had like two or three images on Instagram, but I had no idea how to actually use it. Yeah. And then I figured it out. And there was the hashtag magic. Yeah. But like, all the rest of social media, it's really how active you are with other people is what drives
Unknown Speaker 5:29
Jenna Redfield 5:30
that's so true. So how did you discover that?
Wayne Moran 5:34
Way back in flicker? Yeah. So and I still have a similar
I work. I work all my social media pretty hard. But it's it's a part of my life, my culture. So in the early days of flicker, I was up at 5am. Wow, I would post early and I would comment. Yep. Yeah.
And then in the evening, also, yeah. And that's the same
Unknown Speaker 6:02
time that people are on to it doesn't
Wayne Moran 6:04
matter. Really? If that's the time? I'm yeah, it's some it's really going to work. Yeah. So whenever you have time to do the work, do the work. Exactly. And most people aren't willing to do the work
Jenna Redfield 6:16
true. And I think that that has shown with your follow account. I mean, and so you've mentioned that, so what year did you start Instagram?
Wayne Moran 6:24
How old? Is it four years?
Jenna Redfield 6:25
So I think it started in 2012. So I think it'd be five. So since 2018,
Wayne Moran 6:29
I was probably pretty close to a year. And I had grown on account, and it got deleted, because I was one of those hyper active commenters. So yeah, so they actually deleted my account. So I had to build another one.
Unknown Speaker 6:45
How many were you at when it got deleted? I don't read
Wayne Moran 6:47
a couple thousand. Okay,
Jenna Redfield 6:49
gotcha. Okay, so, like, I know that you so you said that you're a software engineer by day. So how do you how does this all fit together in your life? Like what is your day look like?
Wayne Moran 7:00
My day I'm up at 5am. So okay, so keep in mind, I have two accounts I have using travel beauty and I have Wayne Moran. Okay, amazing travel beauty is a much bigger, I fewer people are following it. But it's a bigger concept. It's a travel brand. And we're building that brand over time. So currently, michael.com is my other administrator, my main administrator on amazing travel beauty. He posts One morning, I post the next morning, I do that every other day. And then we have some other add admins that will comment so we post in the morning and then we comment for about two hours on the mornings that I don't post then I can do my personal account and I'll post something that so but then my phones with me all day long. I I I social media Yeah. of one type or another all day long.
Unknown Speaker 7:57
How do you get worked?
Wayne Moran 8:00
Well, I haven't been fired. Okay. Okay. Must be getting enough done.
Jenna Redfield 8:06
Because I think I was surprised when I found out that you had a another job. That wasn't photography. And I know that probably happens see a lot because you are so well known in the photography world. And I know that's probably is that like side income or like or do you even make income on that? Oh, yeah,
Wayne Moran 8:18
I make significant in okay, but it's not enough to live the lifestyle. I've grown up and put all my kids through college. Okay, gotcha. And I don't want to go full time, because then it doesn't. It's not an art anymore. I it's Yeah, I have to make a living. Yes. And you end up doing what other people make you do. I shouldn't
Jenna Redfield 8:37
use a friend of mine, because he has that exact same motto. And I actually have that same model now too, because I went full time for nine months. And I hated every minute of it. And I once I got my job here, I was like, happier than I've been in a long time, right? I was just I wasn't like, Oh my gosh, all of my income. And like, every month, it's like, I don't know, if I'm gonna make money this month. You know, it's all it's so chaotic for me.
Wayne Moran 9:01
I actually. So I mentor quite a few artists, young artists and things. And I I actually recommend that for men. Yeah. Blend it. If you're any kind of artists, you're going to be blending multiple streams of income. Yeah, go read that book. multiple streams. Yeah. Okay. But you're blending, yes. All kinds of streams of income. So whether you're teaching, whether you're producing whether you're doing all those things, those are streams of income. Yes.
Jenna Redfield 9:27
For me, I have a site. So I still sell stock photos. That's part of what started my business. And it's great because it's just like, you know, it's just like, you know, money coming in. I don't know how much I'll make a month. But it's like, I know, I'll make something and it's
Wayne Moran 9:41
nothing. So it's like, you're moving that over time.
Jenna Redfield 9:44
Yeah, I do. And so that's why when I close my business, I was like, Well, I'm still gonna keep my stock photos because that's like, easy money for me. Like why would I? Why would I get rid of that doesn't make any sense. I just won't put as I just for me, it's more that time of putting more up I just don't put as many up as I used to which I actually should you know, but I it's just busy. Yeah, so that's so interesting that you that you do that on the side. And then so tell me more about this was the travel beauty thing, I was
Wayne Moran 10:12
me amazing travel beauty, everybody, go follow them on Instagram, on Twitter, and go follow the website, etc. But what that really is, is a concept of see the world, change the world and be changed. So go experience the world, get out there and do real travel, experience it and then bring it back and share that with others. So in Instagram for that what we're mostly doing is sharing other people's work right now. So it's curated. It's a curate. Yeah.
Jenna Redfield 10:48
Yeah. I mean, that's the Genesis collective as to where curated and right. Um, I think that that has helped. I mean, I could come up with my own photos would be a lot more work.
Wayne Moran 10:55
Jenna Redfield 10:56
Yeah, I was gonna say I don't think it would have grown as fast if it had just been pup because I mean, there's so many amazing photographers, and people really excited when they when they get posted on our account now. So it's like an honor to be you know, do you follow?
Wayne Moran 11:11
explore Minnesota only in Minnesota. So everyone should everyone should watch what they do and do it like them. And they're not producing new stuff. They're just collecting great stuff. And then they're presenting so people feel really proud. Yes. So that's a huge Yeah,
Jenna Redfield 11:33
yeah. So so for your own photography on your Instagram. Like when do you take those photos at a old photos at Alice knew what kind of content do
Wayne Moran 11:44
you mean? Am I a cheater?
Jenna Redfield 11:46
Yes. not cheating, but making it easier on yourself?
Wayne Moran 11:50
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, I am not to Insta. For example, today's image, my wife and I went to Rhode Island and England this past fall, to visit my son and his new fiance. And we got about a week to explore that area. So now images from that trip. So actually, blog posts are done. So now you can do an image with the blog post. And pull that all together. Yeah.
Jenna Redfield 12:20
So speaking of blogs, we had talked earlier a couple of weeks ago about how you think everyone should have
Unknown Speaker 12:26
a blog everyone should have?
Jenna Redfield 12:30
What what what, why just explain your reasoning. Why Sure.
Wayne Moran 12:34
Conceptually, all artists, all business people in the sales world, you have a thing called a sales funnel. If you haven't heard of that, you can read an article on my blog. I try. It's a concept of all of social media should be leading people back to your website where you have a main content, and they get to know you better on your website and your your articles that you have on your website, show that you are the expert on that topic. So it's just a combination of getting to know you better and better and better. And finally, then on your website, now go by, it's that take action. And by and and your website, you own it, you're in control. So if you only had Instagram, and it went away, or it changed so much that you hated it.
Jenna Redfield 13:32
that happened last year when vine shut down. I don't know if you were watching. I didn't do it. Yeah, yeah. So I watch a lot of its I watched vine a lot. I'm very much of what like I love to consume content. And so I watched a lot of vine and I was noticing I was listening to podcasts about binders talking about they're like, Oh, I'm like trying to get off of vine. I was like, why, like it's doing so great. And all of a sudden shut down. And these people that weren't thinking ahead, they had maybe two or 3 million followers, and then all of a sudden they're gone. And they weren't working on their Instagram, or their YouTube channel or the Facebook, the ones that were successful saw that it was going to eventually go away. And they started building their audiences elsewhere. And those are the ones that are huge now. But the ones that literally put all their eggs in one basket, right have completely died away. And they're just like, lost. Right?
Wayne Moran 14:22
Right. So your website is the only place you own? Yeah. And it actually is a property with value. So over time, you're building a business property.
Jenna Redfield 14:33
Yeah. So what kind of things do you
Wayne Moran 14:36
post on your blog? Recently, it's the New Hampshire New England trip. So week or so ago, it was the top 10 reasons to travel to Providence, Rhode Island. But only five items were in that one because now you have to read the next one, the top five, link, okay. And now what I'm doing though, with that is that's going on Instagram, but it's also going on Twitter, and then you connect to all of the people that you're talking about. So I connect to me, you know, Rhode Island travel, to their newspaper, all of those things. So I could actually get picked up on a travel article by people out in New Hampshire, or in Providence, Rhode. Yeah. So I'm always Yeah, building the net.
Jenna Redfield 15:26
So what I guess my question to you then is why why are you building it when you don't even live there? Like why is it just to have your name out there more what
Wayne Moran 15:36
I am a travel influencer, okay. That's the whole direction. So I will be a global travel influencer. Okay. So I'm using photography and all that okay, to build. So now, all the kids are out of the house, we can travel and the goal is be doing major travel three to four times a year. Okay. I want other people to be paying for that. Gotcha. So,
Jenna Redfield 16:00
okay, that's interesting, because then people want you to come visit their city and take photos and
Wayne Moran 16:06
write articles. So gotcha. So I just posted on Facebook on national brand hired me to write a Minnesota, kind of Minnesota. It's a winter photography. Nice article.
Jenna Redfield 16:20
Cool. Is that something that you focus in? Or just because you're from Minnesota,
Wayne Moran 16:24
right? It's Yeah, it's because I winter area, and they're familiar with me. Okay. So it's building that familiarity with lots of people, then all of a sudden stuff starts.
Jenna Redfield 16:34
Yeah, so what so I'm sure Instagram's probably man platform, but what what? So you mentioned Twitter, how do you use all of these? Yeah, so but I've actually read something somebody posted on Facebook, that who knows a lot about social media is like, you know, this year, Twitter's probably not going to be it's going to be going down even more like in terms of the popularity and just the overall thing that like businesses just won't use it as much as they use other platforms. What are your thoughts on that?
Wayne Moran 17:03
Remember when I am radio you don't of course, but I remember once upon a time am radio was the only thing. Yeah. And then TV came out. And everyone said, am radio is going to go away? Yeah, completely die. Well, am radio is still here. So will it completely go away? No, I don't have all my eggs in one basket in Twitter. But I can tweet to movers and shakers around the world and they'll respond to me. Yeah, that's true. That's outrageous. powerful
Jenna Redfield 17:32
it is. I think that I do like Twitter, and I go through ups and downs with Twitter. But I do think that when major things happen, it's the place to go
Unknown Speaker 17:41
like when people can I ran?
Jenna Redfield 17:42
Yeah, I mean, literally anything. I I go on Twitter every week when I watch The Bachelor to see what people's reactions, you know, like,
Unknown Speaker 17:49
the stupid matter how bad the reality is, I'm
Jenna Redfield 17:52
like, Oh, I could see all these funny tweets. And like, I get to, you know, for me, it's not as much of a for me, it's more of an entertainment thing than a a brand promoting thing, at least for me.
Wayne Moran 18:02
But it is a networking thing, also. So it's another place I'm using, you know, linking to my blog. Yep. I'm sending it out to those people, those movers and shakers. So I hit today with the Rhode Island post. I hit seven major movers and shakers in Rhode Island. Wow. So something can come?
Jenna Redfield 18:24
Yeah. So I think a lot of people that are listening to this probably don't have that. Maybe they're just starting out and they don't know what the heck they're doing. What is like your biggest things that you've learned? In general like in I don't even know what what type of thing maybe social media, like how do you utilize social media as a way to grow not just your business, but also your personal brand? Because you kind of have like your, it's, it's you that they're following? Even though I feel like because sometimes you do like these amazing shots, but then you also post pictures of like, human family. So like, how does that how do you? How do you like, this has been an issue for me with my personal Instagram, my general Instagram, I'm like, What do I post on here? Like, do I post pictures of me like hanging out with friends? Or do I just make it super professional? I'm just very all over the place with that. I
Wayne Moran 19:12
dislike most brands, and the way they do it when I look at their Instagram page, and it's all ads, every single picture and add Yeah, here's my product, because I probably I probably being personal with the product or imagine again, Explorer, Minnesota. is a brand that or not is there a huge travel in company? They're not posting their stuff. They're showing how other people are using their product Minnesota? Yeah. So every brand should be doing that. So it should be much more personal. Yeah. And if there's a significant leader in the organization that has personality, that personality should be there. You know, Minnesota Vikings, you'd have players and Ragnar and other people like that or whatever. So
Unknown Speaker 20:06
so being personal personal is incredibly important. You
Jenna Redfield 20:09
think that's changed over time? Or has it always been that way? Especially like on Instagram, like, I feel like lately, we've just seen more people being honest. And like, Instagram Stories has changed the game when it comes to like being like, this is me today. Like, this is literally me, and I might not be perfect. Like it looks like in my photos. You know,
Wayne Moran 20:26
I think Paris Hilton type personality has done that forever. Yeah, and I'm not going to that extreme. I'm just saying be human. Yeah. In you're in. And, and there's a huge range of that.
Jenna Redfield 20:41
Because I think that there's also people that love the pretty pictures too. So I think it's interesting, because when Instagram came out with stories, I was like, this is not going to work because they're just trying to be Snapchat, and they're not Snapchat, Snapchat as a tool, you know, like a crushed
Wayne Moran 20:53
Jenna Redfield 20:54
Yes, that's true. So I was surprised. I was surprised how well Instagram Stories did because I was like, they're just trying everything. They're trying to be everything. And then now Facebook has stories, which I like the fact that they are kind of like bridging them together. Because for the longest time, I'm like, Who's gonna just post on stories? You know, like,
Wayne Moran 21:13
I have a weird hate hate relationship with Facebook.
Unknown Speaker 21:16
Wayne Moran 21:19
Of course I use it. Yeah. But the response is just so totally different than Instagram. So Instagram is much more visual. Yeah. Facebook is my best response is from posting my grandchild.
Unknown Speaker 21:37
You get the most likes on that
Wayne Moran 21:39
interaction. Yeah. Or if if I post one of my best normal pictures, you'll get, you know, 10 Yeah. And it's really weird.
Jenna Redfield 21:48
Yeah, I do think when I put like it's funny I post on my personal Instagram a lot, which I don't know, I post way too much. But I it's funny when I just write about something thing. I get the most comments when it's something about me and not just like promoting like something I'm doing or something. It's always I I posted last week, I haven't I've gotten comments from people haven't talked to in years I post I asked people, hey, I have acne has been flaring this week. What what product should I use? I guess? Because the algorithms like oh, this is popular people comment I got like, probably like 15 to 20 different people that literally I hadn't talked to in years, telling me exactly what to do. And they were being very, very strong in their opinions. I was like, I was thinking back a little bit. I thought maybe I get like three or four comments. No, I got like, the gamut of people being like, this is what you do. And like, this is what you don't do. And I was like, Okay, I can't follow all these. But like, I'll take some of you know, it
Wayne Moran 22:46
wasn't totally the personal thing. It was asking a question. Every ask a question. People love free. Yeah,
Jenna Redfield 22:53
exactly. And I've learned that with Instagram to, in order for me to get comments on this collective. I do like to ask questions like, what is your goals for 2018? Or, you know, just even the most basic question people like to comment because then also, people might see their comment and follow that, you know, like, people comment, and that's why you comment is to be well known, you know, but
Wayne Moran 23:11
but this is also its social media.
Unknown Speaker 23:14
Yeah, true. It's a competition. So
Wayne Moran 23:16
my wife and I chat a lot. And we discuss the Lost Art of conversation. And I don't know if it's just a Minnesota thing. It could be bigger than that. But you go, you go to a party. And you're the only one asking questions and the other person never, they just they never have a conversation. They never interact.
But people want to interact. Yeah, really, really, really want to interact.
Jenna Redfield 23:46
And I do think that is why I love social media. Because I have found people that are good conversationalist, I guess on social, and I've met, I've actually met quite a few friends through Twitter that I, you know, I used to do, I used to be a bigger thing a couple years ago. But Twitter chats, they were super big, and I was involved in a lot of them. I made a lot of friends that way. I've now like turn those Twitter friendships into Facebook friendships, I've turned into Skype being like, I have a friend in San Antonio who like I Skype with, you know, she's like a friend. And like, I've never met her before in real life. But I feel like I've met her before because I'm so close with her, you know, and social. You know,
Wayne Moran 24:20
you there were two points you made there. Two of the points are, yes, share from social media to social media Mix, mix those fans, because once you've made a friend one place, they get translated very, very nicely. But social media is real, and you make real friends. So my second best friend of the world right now, or probably the person that knows me the best was from flicker. Really? Yeah. And then we really met Yeah, in real life. And neither of us were as weird as we thought we were What? Yeah, so
Jenna Redfield 24:54
Well, I don't know if you know her. But page popi. She was on a few weeks ago. She's actually from Arizona. And she just moved here. And I saw that on on Instagram, that she was moving here. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like I've been following you for years on Instagram. I sent her an email, I said, Hey, like, let's connect. I know, you're new in town. She was like, so happy because she didn't really know many people here. And then Shannon coming on the podcast. And now we're like, really good friends. And we're like, you know, it's just crazy, like, and she had remembered me because I don't know if I interacted with her on Instagram or something. We're both designers, I guess. And so it's just crazy how people always a lot of my personal close friends don't do social media at all, which I think is hilarious, because I'm like, I'm so into it. But like, and they always kind of make fun of me because they're like, they just don't get it. Yeah, and like my roommate doesn't have Instagram. Like it's just like I'm in two completely different worlds. One's completely like social media and, and one's completely not social media. So it's nice to kind of balance that. But it's interesting, because people always like how do you know all these people? I'm like, I met them on social media. I met them on Instagram I met and
Wayne Moran 25:53
I don't get it.
Yeah, but here's another weird thing with social media, you could go find some rock star, you know, some Instagram person with a million followers. You can communicate with them send the message or or you know, start commenting. They actually notice that you're commenting, and some of them become pretty closely connected to because even the bigwigs, they want to connect with real people. Yes, they're only you know, the only Yes, or some of those but yeah, many people are just real people that want to interact.
Jenna Redfield 26:29
I agree. And I think it depends on the person. That's what you're saying. Some people told me there's some people that are just in it for the fame and there's some people that are like very talented and they you know, have got big right
Wayne Moran 26:40
exactly like are they live in Iceland? living in Iceland take all these amazing.
Unknown Speaker 26:45
Oh, yeah. You know,
Jenna Redfield 26:47
I was thinking like Ed Sheeran, like, he's just like, enormously talented, but I feel like he's a real person. You know, like, I feel like I could go up to him and like, talk to him. And I would be very starstruck but like, I feel like I would have it Okay, conversation with anyone knows that. I went to, uh, I lived in LA for about six months, and I went to a free Ed Sheeran concert. And this was before he was like, he was big, sort of, but it was his first album. So he was still kind of growing, but it was a free concert. And I was like, I skipped class to go to it. I was like, I'm gonna see Ed Sheeran. And now
Wayne Moran 27:16
knows you as your buddy.
Jenna Redfield 27:18
Sure. Sure. That that maybe, you know, maybe, but you look at old videos of him and he was like, performing on the street. So you know, it's like, it's like, they're normal. like Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift. They all perform just like in like, public and like, no one was watching them. And now you know, who saying
Wayne Moran 27:39
I'm gonna lose the super big.
Jenna Redfield 27:44
Okay. All right. Um, but yeah, so it's interesting. I found that interesting as well, because I don't get I don't get starstruck that much. by people. Like I meet people around town. They're like big waves. And I'm like, you're just a person, like, you just have more followers with them. But like, that doesn't make us like, there's no like hierarchy, in my opinion, like, you just have maybe worked harder or like, have gotten lucky opportunities.
Wayne Moran 28:08
And it can be lonely in those places. So if you're a nice people, if you're a decent human, you can actually have a conversation with
Jenna Redfield 28:16
I tried it. I'm like, because every time people like, I've actually gotten recognized places like because they follow me on Instagram or something. And I'm like, it's so weird for me because I'm like, I'm just a person. Like, I don't like her. But it's just like, I, I don't know it. Like it feels good that like I'm being recognized, but it's just it's the weirdest thing. Right? Do you get that? Because I know you're kind of a local celebrity. I
Unknown Speaker 28:39
Wayne Moran 28:40
that. And I just have conversations with you. Yeah. And frequently just happened recently, I was walking the Skyway and I like, you know, I do my lunchtime walks. And someone first sent a note that said, Hey, I saw you in skyway. I'm like, Well, next time stop me. Yeah, we chatted, you know, like, hey, let's go for a walk. Because I'm just going for a walk
Jenna Redfield 29:00
Nice. Yeah, cuz I think, I think with social media, I think it has made the world like smaller, if that makes sense. Because I feel like, as you said, like celebrities can, you know, tweet what they want, you know, and like, Bill, you know, it's just, it's, you can tweet at them and they can respond to you know, you never know they do they do. Like I was thinking, I don't know why john mayer popped in my head. But like, he's like, he's
Wayne Moran 29:24
Jenna Redfield 29:24
He's super active on Twitter. And he like, is like, basically like a Twitter comedian. I don't know if you've ever followed him, but like he, but I just feel like he'd be someone who you could tweet out. And he probably could potentially, like, tweet back at you. I don't know. I just feel like it depends on the person. But, um, so yeah, so going back to Instagram, I know you're going to be speaking at our Instagram growth panel, or I guess, workshop in a few weeks. So for the people that can't make that what would be like one or two tips that you would give someone starting out
Wayne Moran 29:55
on Instagram, breaking all the rules? Now?
The Instagram is really easy. There are two rules, post great content, and be social. So those are easy, but they're not simple or vice versa. They're simple.
Unknown Speaker 30:11
They're not easy. I think there's lots of work.
Jenna Redfield 30:14
I think the work is the time. Correct. So I think I think it's I don't think it's hard. And I think once you understand, and it's not hard. It's just the it is the time and I think that the people that are willing to spend the time won't get the results that they want, you know, and then I recommend,
Wayne Moran 30:31
gosh, don't do it. Put it away. Don't do it.
So then your brand looks cheesy, it looks bad. So just don't do it.
Unknown Speaker 30:42
I'm not to do Instagram, or not to do
Wayne Moran 30:44
if you're not going to put some Yeah, that's true.
Jenna Redfield 30:47
That's true. I agree. If you're if you are like but like do your deals, yeah, if you hate it, your audience will know that and they'll be like, why am I following you? Like, I totally agree with that. If, but it's like, you know, then hire someone to do it. That's my thought is like, get someone you know,
Wayne Moran 31:02
like, you know, are you making any recommendations?
Jenna Redfield 31:04
I mean, there's so many people that I like, I'm trying to think of someone that does like just posting Instagram for people, but like, you could hire a photographer to take photos. I mean, for me, I think it is an important medium to be on, especially for certain industries. If we're like a b2b business, like an accountant. I don't think you need to be on there. I like I think they're there. Okay, one of the things I get upset about is why exactly when you're like a graphic or web designer, that's what I don't understand why you're not on Instagram,
Wayne Moran 31:32
because you're on Instagram, and you have a private account.
Jenna Redfield 31:35
Oh, yes. What the heck? I know, I agree. Totally agree with that. And it's funny. So for our first Instagram workshop, I forgot to ask everyone their Instagram handles. So I made it a challenge for me to find everyone. And I wanted to see how easy it was just from their name and their email, you know, just if I could find I think I got almost everyone, but it took a while. For some of them. I
Wayne Moran 31:58
like x seven. Wow. Yeah. Like, that's not great branding.
Jenna Redfield 32:03
But yeah, so like, there was I'm not gonna name names, but there was somebody who I was like, this, this handle is like your only handle with this, like, your website doesn't have that handle? Why did you choose this, it also doesn't show your entire first and last name, it's just your first name with maybe your maiden name, or like, just like just your first name. I think that if you want to brand yourself, you have to get all that information out there.
Wayne Moran 32:27
A lot of people like being anonymous on social,
Jenna Redfield 32:30
but if you're trying to grow a business, right, that and the people that are coming to our workshop, I think they want that they want to grow their business, I'm like, you have to that I think part of owning a business is being vulnerable and and like being open, it's like if you're gonna be closed off and be like, Oh, I don't want to like share all this stuff. I'm like, as long as it's not affecting you like your safety, right? I don't understand why I'm a very open person. So I mean, maybe that's just my, it's funny, because my parents, they they don't understand how I share so much. But I'm like, I don't care. Like what are they going to do today? me like I like I I'm an open book. Like I can share whatever I want about my life. And I think people get more out of that then by be instead of me just getting closed off and not telling anyone anything.
Wayne Moran 33:10
You're very and Minnesotan, it must have been your time in LA,
Jenna Redfield 33:14
maybe, well, no, I think I've just always been this way I was born if that makes a difference. But uh, I grew up here. And it's funny, because, um, I think it is our culture of Minnesota to that a lot of people. I'm Scandinavian mostly. So like, my family's very much private. And like, I think both my parents were raised where like, my grandma didn't want anyone to know her business. And so that's very common. Yeah. And so I think that like with people that live in LA and New York and stuff, it's all about you have to be out there. And I think it's it. I always say this, it takes longer for things to come here, because we're coming from both coasts. And eventually it makes its way to the Midwest, but we're kind of the last to know things started here. True. True. And he did stay here, which isn't exactly, but but I do think that we are sometimes a little bit behind on some of the trends, of course. And so I do think that being big and bold, and just you know, it's not as common here. So I think it's easier to be a well known person, if you're just that, right. Like I was like, if I was me in LA, I would be nothing because competing against, you know, everyone else here. It's like, if you have any talent or any skill in any like niche, you're going to do well,
Wayne Moran 34:27
yes, and no, kind of.
You're totally right. But Minneapolis, St. Paul, is an outrageously large creative control. So there's a ton of competition. There's a lot of creative people out there.
Jenna Redfield 34:45
But I think by putting yourself out there and being if you're wanting to be known within your industry, you can create I think it's easier to break through up against the competition. I agree. So especially in like, I would say, like, just for example, I used to work in at the wedding industry. Like I do think that there are celebrities, and they'll open the Minneapolis wedding industry, the people that everyone looks up to, and there's like the best of the best. And I think they are the ones that have figured it out. Right. And I think they're the ones that people kind of aspire to be. And I half of
Wayne Moran 35:19
their time is spent marketing.
Unknown Speaker 35:21
Yeah, exactly. I agree with that. And for me, I was a wedding videographer for a year, and I didn't really enjoy it that much. And so I didn't really put time into it. If I did, I think I would have you know, done well. But it's like the passion behind it too. It's like if you want to grow your business, you're going to find the means to promote it on social or, you know, so use You said you were shocked that I wasn't a full time photographer. That's because I spend so I actually have a business plan for all the stuff my business plan keeps me on task of Yeah, whenever I'm confused what what I should do go look at the plan. Oh, yeah, those are the top three items go do that.
Wayne Moran 36:01
Marketing is 50%. Yes, my time and purposefully Yeah, I'm writing the blog posts, I'm doing that stuff. And you just do that. And then everything else happens.
Jenna Redfield 36:13
I do think that the there's a lot of people that don't like marketing and so
Wayne Moran 36:18
there's a bad word, they think it's evil. Now
Jenna Redfield 36:22
I I always get weirded out by the word sales. Because for me, I'm not good at selling. I think I'm good at marketing, but I'm not great at like closing the deal. That's my issue. And so I know I've like I just have issues with it. And so I just like, I just know it in myself. I'm just like, I can get you to come to my thing. But will you buy my thing? I don't know. That to me is the harder part is it is a skill.
Unknown Speaker 36:44
It is a skill skill.
Jenna Redfield 36:45
And that's why salespeople are paid very well, because they have mastered I have friends who are sales guys. And they they can like sell you the cookbook for you know anything.
Wayne Moran 36:55
But if you bring the right people, so if you're marketing correctly and bring the right people to the a place to purchase.
You don't have to push very hard to make the sale.
Jenna Redfield 37:06
That is what I found with our workshops, right. I've already built the audience and they're like, ready for it? Correct. So I was I wasn't like I was I knew I was going to do well. But it like the fastest the speed of which it sold out. shocked me a little right.
Unknown Speaker 37:22
I was like, huge nude need.
Jenna Redfield 37:24
Yes, I agree. And I I was telling talk to my mom on the phone like 20 minutes ago. And I was like, you know, mom? Hi, mom. She I don't think so. I mean, she, she I was telling her I was like, you know, there's so many people, especially in Twin Cities collective that want to run their own business, but they don't have the background or the knowledge. And I think that they struggle finding the resources, right for learning. Because being an entrepreneur, being your own business owner, you have to do everything almost unless until you are successful enough to hire it out. You know?
Wayne Moran 38:00
Yeah, this is a weird thing.
I mentioned the business plan.
It was actually my pastor that kicked my butt to make me write the business plan. Like why? Why was
Unknown Speaker 38:13
why did he cuz he realized you have
Wayne Moran 38:15
skills and abilities. Why aren't you growing that chip to work? Boom. So he's just been a mentor.
Jenna Redfield 38:20
That's awesome. Yeah. Because I think one reason I decided to leave my business that I just quit, like a month ago, was I realized I was just spending so much time like dawdling on like the stupid things and wasn't actually getting anything done no passion. Exactly. I was like I was exactly I was like, I was like doing things just to do them. Because I'm like, I think this will may be improved my website a little bit. And I just felt like, since I've gone to twins, this collective, I feel like, my action has gotten so much better, because I'm like, I know what I need to do. And I just have to do it. And before I was like, just like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, you know, and that was like the whole nine months of me with my own business. I was like, Oh, no, I'm supposed to be doing
Wayne Moran 38:58
one of the best things you're doing with 20 Twin Cities collective, though, is your networking, a bunch of people out there that have those skills? Exactly. Those teams? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 39:06
everyone needs team. Exactly. And
Jenna Redfield 39:09
I think I know if I've talked to you about this, but one thing that happened early on, when I took over the group was somebody posted, I don't know if it was a comment, or if they just posted about it. But they said that they've lived in Minnesota for three years and had no friends. And that like literally broke my heart. Like because it's like, you know, and I've talked about this on the podcast before people, it's sometimes it's hard to break into friends here because a lot of it's hard it is. And so that's what kind of that kind of spurred me on to be like, you know, I want this group to be accepting of everyone. Like, I want it to be like a place where you can make friends to like, in addition to learning about business, I want it to be a community of friendship. And people have told me they've made friends. I actually set up a couple accidentally this year, like I said, you know, like, just through like networking, I like to set a couple up that are now still dating, like, it's so weird to get married. And then just yeah,
Wayne Moran 40:00
it's your phone.
Unknown Speaker 40:01
Okay, well, I was gonna say they get married.
Wayne Moran 40:07
Jenna Redfield 40:08
but I people like I never realized how much of a connector I was until this group, because I'm like, every time someone posts, I'm like, you should talk to this person, or you should talk to them. Like, I just like to know everyone so that like, I know who to refer people to some rain maker.
Okay, I can take that. I'll take that. I'll take that. I'm awesome. Well, I think we're going to be closing up on this conversation. But any last words? any last comments?
Wayne Moran 40:36
If you missed or if you're going to miss the Instagram growth,
Jenna Redfield 40:41
still have tickets for the third one, but yes, yours,
Wayne Moran 40:43
but there'll be many coming up. Yeah, sure. I
Unknown Speaker 40:46
will do it. I think I've realized people really want Instagram. So I'm going to hopefully be doing some work hugely. And I do consulting on the side also for some of that stuff. So get in touch with me.
Wayne Moran 40:56
Yep, yep. Yep. And I do photography, consulting. Also, if you're trying to build your photography, yeah. But anyway, use this community there is so whenever I mentoring young people, I'm always saying, Are you plugged into this community yet? Cuz it's so good.
Jenna Redfield 41:11
It is. Thank you. I really appreciate your cuz I know you when you joined you were like, so excited about it. I remember I think I remember you saying like, I finally found something
Unknown Speaker 41:19
that you were totally,
Jenna Redfield 41:21
which is super awesome. Because that's what I want. That's what that's the reaction I
Wayne Moran 41:24
want every time someone joins you hear you to in your head. But
yeah, I did. I found
Jenna Redfield 41:32
I didn't know the reason that I I took it over was because no one Miss stepping up to run any local leadership groups where where it was a networking group that didn't have to do with weddings, or didn't have to do with something. It was just creative people in doing their own businesses. You know,
Wayne Moran 41:47
I had a weird thought today. So I'm seeing some bigger, bigger companies get involved in this. Uh huh. How do you balance that with the big?
Jenna Redfield 41:57
What do you mean,
Wayne Moran 41:59
big brands coming in to get involved? And there's a place for that? Yeah, I don't know. Like, it was just a weird thought I had like,
Jenna Redfield 42:08
like, have you seen them? Or you just thought that that would happen?
Wayne Moran 42:11
For the recent post of I think it was internships or whatever. Brands coming in there. And frankly, for a person who wants an internship, that's great. Yeah, brands are coming in there.
Jenna Redfield 42:24
Yeah, I don't mind it. Because the people that work for the brands are people that may I mean, like, there's a lot of I would say a lot of people that work in the corporate world, have your own blog on the side. And they're in our group because of that. And so they're like, oh, but my day job does this. There's so many people in our group who work for corporate, like I, you know, my friend who was on podcasts work for target, like, there's people that I don't I and I think that we need to kind of bridge that gap between the two. And I think that
Wayne Moran 42:54
I think the careful spot would be if your friend was representing target.
Unknown Speaker 42:58
Yeah. Oh, no.
Wayne Moran 43:01
So the myth, yeah, overtakes all the exactly I
Jenna Redfield 43:05
don't become Yes, I agree with that. But she also has her own business on so you know, it's like, so I want to talk more about that. And exactly, you know, and it's, you know, I, I changed the name. It used to be the Twin Cities blogger collective, I changed it to the Twin Cities collective, because I wanted to incorporate more people, like entrepreneurs, small business owners, creatives, artists, makers, like people that didn't really have a community and yet they wanted to learn from bloggers, are they in the bloggers want to learn from sales people, you know, all within that kind of overall? selling something, you know, business? You know, that's kind of why I changed it. But so I guess my question your answer to my answer to your question is, I'm not sure right. Now.
Wayne Moran 43:46
Here's another crazy thought. So in this outrageously fast moving economy, where you can make a living as a little guy, little gal working at home, I'm doing amazing things. This organization helps them, yes, facilitate all of that stuff. So there's a ton of that happening everywhere. Yeah, and those little tiny mom and pop companies can explode into big thing true.
Jenna Redfield 44:15
And there's, I've seen it, I've seen it within since I've been doing this, I've seen people grow from you know, hundred followers on Instagram to 5000 in a year, you know, like I, they've been incorporating the networking events and the things that we've been offering. But then they've also figured out on their own too, and I love seeing that I have a friend who's he's a fashion blogger. And he does. He's on Instagram. I remember, I knew him in high school. And I all of a sudden now he's like, super big and like, I'm like, it's so crazy. Like I I mean, I connected him to one person and that helped like him meet a bunch of other people. So it's like, you got it. You got to know those people. You got to know the people. You gotta go to networking events. You gotta go to workshops, you gotta learn this stuff, so that you can help yourself but also by meeting the right people like that this job here. The studio co work is so weird. I three years ago, I was right out of college. I was had no like, I had no job and all of a sudden I put I'm a volunteer videographer on my LinkedIn. This girl found me. She's like, Hey, I work for the Humane Society. Could you film a video for us? I said, Sure. Why not? Like I want some, you know, footage did for free. Got that video up. Then. A woman in Excelsior who was friends with this girl said hey, like we're doing a video for girls night out. We need a videographer. I said sure. And and I think there's like a little bit of money. It wasn't too much. But I was like, you know, sweet, I'm getting paid. And then that girl, I sort of stay in touch with her. Not really. But like I remembered each other's names when I applied.
Unknown Speaker 45:47
But when I apply for the job here, my boss saw that I was connected with her on LinkedIn. And she was our first coworker. Like How weird is that? like three years later? Like the circle like yourself and all listeners update your LinkedIn? Yes, I have a great LinkedIn.
Jenna Redfield 46:05
Yes, I actually have been using a lot more lately. It's actually a really great tool. And I think that they've updated their stuff a lot recently, where you can add videos and stuff now, which I think is completely true. It's almost like the new Facebook. I think
Unknown Speaker 46:17
it's it's professional Facebook. It is
Jenna Redfield 46:19
and I agree and it's really easy to search people to like if I like today, I don't know why I just decided to search like influencer to see like, I wanted to connect with the influencer marketers that like Best Buy and target. Like I wanted them to know who I am. Because our group is filled with so many influencers I wanted to figure out if that's something I could do in the future is work with them. You know, you're looking
Wayne Moran 46:37
Unknown Speaker 46:40
Maybe I mean target
Jenna Redfield 46:41
Well, yeah, cuz I'm like, we have all the people in our group. It's just like figuring out how I can utilize that right in the future. So that's kind of my that's kind of my overall like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know something will happen at some point. So I'm just keeping my options open, but awesome. So how do we find you social? What's your handles?
Wayne Moran 47:01
I can't just search Moran. Okay, Wayne Moran. Find me everywhere and
Unknown Speaker 47:07
we'll post the links in the description. That'd be awesome.
Jenna Redfield 47:10
Alright, well, thanks so much, Wayne, for joining us.
Wayne Moran 47:12
Thanks for having me. It was tons of fun.
Jenna Redfield 47:14
Yes. Awesome. We'll talk to you guys next week. Thanks for listening to the Twin Cities collective podcast with Jen Redfield. Again this was recorded at Studio co work in Golden Valley. You can learn more at Studio co work com thanks again to Nicola hi last for the use of the music in the intros, outros, and to Melanie lead of my ability designs for the cover art design. Thanks again guys. And we'll see you next time.