Life as a freelance project manager, the digital/traditional divide & finding your career path with @NinaKopetka

Life as a freelance project manager, the digital/traditional divide & finding your career path with @NinaKopetka

Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives.

Join the Facebook Group

www.facebook.com/groups/twincitiescollective

Read our Blog

www.twincitiescollective.com/blog

Instagram Coaching Services

http://bit.ly/tcc-ig-coaching

Logging Out Web Series

http://bit.ly/logging-out

Upcoming Events

www.twincitiescollective.com/events

Signup for our email list for upcoming workshops & events

http://bit.ly/tccemail

Follow us on Social

www.twitter.com/tccollectivemn

www.instagram.com/twincitiescollective

www.facebook.com/twincitiescollective


Hi, I'm your host Jenna Redfield, director of the Twin Cities collective and online community for local entrepreneurs, bloggers, small business owners and creatives. Make sure to join our Facebook group@facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash Twin Cities collective. Follow us on Instagram at Twin Cities collective and go to Twin Cities collective calm. To learn more about our upcoming workshops, subscribe on your podcast app and give us a review on Apple podcasts. Now sit back, relax and enjoy this episode of the podcast.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host Jenna Redfield Creative day, I have a first guest for a project management and time management month. And this is Nina Pekka. She is a freelance project manager at Nina and co How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Good. Sorry. I said that was neat. Nico, and co going co because it's your first and your last name combined with my middle initial was your middle initial. So okay. And I okay. Okay, sorry. I'm like trying to fix it. Okay, cool. So, tell us your story. How did you get to where you are today? How did you get here?

Nina Kopteka 1:43

My story. So I was a project manager before I knew what that was. Okay. Um, I have a PR degree from Bemidji State. And spent last two years up there. Not going to class but running the newspaper.

I'd been I did graduate.

And yeah, and I didn't realize that managing a team of like 10 to 15 people was actually had a job job. They know. And, I mean, I'm a little bit older in the industry. So there was no, I mean, email was just started when I was in college. So you know, I came move back to the city and just lucked into agency. Okay, um, project management slash, I think the the ad was for a project manager slash proofreader. And so, and I have an English minor. So I was like, hey, this position was made for me. So yeah, started there at fame back in the day. And then that just moved on. From there, I started a lot of print work a lot of in store, I think everybody did their time with in store for target. So I did that for a little bit and moved on to Carmichael, Lynch, and you know, bigger accounts, bigger creative teams. And just kept moving from their digital started to come. Found out that digital project managers made more money than traditional and so I was like, well, that's where I gotta go. So, um, yeah. And so I feel like I, I still am a pretty old school, in the sense that I'm all about relationships, creatives. And the relationship that goes along with working with creatives is the most important thing. Yes. And so I still keep that in my repertoire. And then I feel like I'm kind of an early adapter when it comes to just sticking with, you know, learning the newest technologies that can accompany my style. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 4:15

for sure. Because I think that that's really important. Once, you know, as you said, you had to adapt to the changing culture. How was that for you? Was it easier? Um,

Nina Kopteka 4:26

it was actually kind of easy for me, I think. Because I, it's interesting to me. And I mean, there are there are a lot of other people my age that were just terrified of the web. And, you know, working with developers, and you know, just being able to assimilate to the kind of work that was not going to go anywhere, anytime soon. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, when the internet started, and we're doing banner ads, we're doing retargeting and everything else. And you had to be willing to learn what that was. And now it's the same with social media. Yeah. You know, it's, it's not going to go anywhere, anytime soon.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 5:11

Yeah. And I think that a lot of people get kind of scared away from that, especially, you know, if they didn't grow up and aren't native to it. So how did you like it compared to the people your age, like in your generation? Was that? Are you like, more aligned with that now? Yeah. And a lot of them?

Nina Kopteka 5:29

I feel like

yes, or no, I think

I will say my last few jobs. I am definitely one of the older ones.

But I also feel like that makes me more well rounded.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 5:46

You're more experienced, too,

Nina Kopteka 5:48

because a lot of the young people that are graduating from college don't know how to do traditional. That's true.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 5:54

So true. So how much is it of traditionalism still out there?

Nina Kopteka 5:59

You know, there's more than than you would think. Yeah. Because there's always going to be a client who just wants a full page newspaper ad, you know, there. And, you know, we're kind of in a time when, like, everything old is new again, a little bit like, vintage is cool. Yeah. So

there's definitely,

there's definitely like, a little bit of everything. Yeah. I mean, even like, Who would have thought that, like, outdoor billboards would still be a, you know, but now they're, now they're digital outdoor. And they're less expensive and less turn time. And so it's, it's definitely still out there, for sure.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 6:47

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that a lot of people don't realize how much people still do that. You know. And I think that I think it is changing, though, I think I mean, obviously social and like, what when I was in college, which wasn't that long ago, but social media wasn't really a job yet. Like, it was like, some people had it, but a lot of like, there was no programs in college. And now I spoke at a college last fall, River Falls, and I spoke their marketing department. And they're like, everyone, there was like, social media that was there. Like, I was like, how is this a thing, like, just a few years later? Like, when I was there, social media wasn't even a wasn't even. It wasn't even a class. It wasn't even a class. And I'm like, so people, like people, like, how did you I'm like, I had to learn it myself. You know, and it's like, you're self taught. I mean, there's also like, the mark, I wasn't even a marketing major. I was a media communication major. But, you know, it's like, how have you taught yourself? Like, what? What tools? Have you taught yourself when all these new technologies are coming out? Because obviously, college was so long ago, you know, for both of us. And so it's like, and obviously, we were taught this in college, how did you have you? Have you taught yourself?

Nina Kopteka 7:56

I've been able to, like, even, I mean, we've all had jobs that we weren't crazy about, and but you learn from every place that you work every day, you know, my most recent role at Best Buy I, I was a project manager and I worked on, you know, big drive time campaigns, but I had to learn the social aspect of it, as well. And so and it's, and it's how much you're willing to soak it in. Yeah, um, you know, I mean, and I, I take my own time, and I, you know, listen to podcasts I read go to, or, you know, I do webinars, I do my own research, which

I don't know that. That's the norm.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 8:45

I think, I don't know if it's the norm, but I think it's what smart and dedicated people do

Unknown Speaker 8:50

right now. You know,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 8:52

you know, they're the ones that get ahead because they understand it. And I feel like, if you're that keen on being good at what you do you take the time to educate yourself right now. And that's how you stand out. And yeah, I mean, and that's always kind of been what I've thrived on. I'm pretty competitive.

Nina Kopteka 9:10

So I, I just I the best. Yeah, I tried to,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 9:15

yeah, so can you explain what you do? Like, I don't really get project management like you. I was like, I don't I want I wanted to have a project manager on because I'm like, I don't know what they do. Like, I want to know. So what's like, your average day? Or what's your average, like,

Nina Kopteka 9:28

job, I guess, um, we do as a project manager, a little bit of everything, I think, the visual that I've always used as like, we are the center of like a tire like a wheel. And the spokes are, you know, all the creatives in the account, people and strategists and we project managers are the people that know everything, or should know everything. From mean, project based work, or campaign based work, it all starts with a scope. Yeah, um, you know, assess it, what, what are the deliverables? What's the timing? What's the budget? Those are kind of the three main things. And then it's up to the project manager to

figure out timing.

Meeting Kate review cadence, you know, does it need to be reviewed by the president of the company? Or does it only need to go, you know, just to marketing? Who, and then, you know, there's the resource management part of it, like, who's going to be working on my project? And I will say, not to throw a tangent in, but resource management, in my experience is the, one of the most on crackle nuts in our industry, okay, like nowhere that I've ever worked has really had it figured out to a tee

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 11:08

was playing, like, what resource management is, basically,

Nina Kopteka 11:13

most places that I've worked has have had a resource manager. But and that person is responsible for the creative team. And so knowing what everybody is working on, and how many hours they're on project a, and when that is due or done. And, and when they can start on project B, or are they small enough that they can work on three at the same time?

It's a, it's an interesting

thing that is really hard to figure out because especially when you know it in agency, we work on an hourly, yeah, you know, we're billable hours. Yeah. So um, so yeah, it's, it is basically taking everything around a campaign or project, bringing it down into small bite sized, digestible chunks, and then holding everybody responsible.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 12:18

So you're kind of like, the manager of everyone basically, a little bit? Is it? Is it more of a manager of people or more of a management of the project itself? Like the content?

Nina Kopteka 12:30

We are I mean, a little bit of both. Yeah, at the end of the day, a project manager is responsible for me, and you hear me you hear this, every pm job description is the same, execute everything on time and on budget. And I mean, it, you know, you hear it a lot. But that is, that is what it is. But then there's also and make sure your team is happy and make sure that the client has, you know, I mean, it's like, it's a little bit of everything, kind

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 13:05

of like the producer on the movie, ya know, like, and being in control of everything, because a lot of people think the director is in charge. But no, the director is the creative one. Right. And the producer is the one that's actually doing all the work. Yeah, you know?

Nina Kopteka 13:16

Yep. And I mean, and then it's all about relationships. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you're working on deadlines that something, you know, screws up your deadline and, or your client spring something out of the blue, and it's like, you know, you have to have the relationships with your team so that they can trust you that you're not just, you know, making them work late for the sake of working late.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 13:44

So how many people do usually manage? Would you say?

Nina Kopteka 13:49

Well, I mean, on any given team, it's usually, a project manager will typically almost always have an account manager counterpart, okay. The account manager, is the client facing one? In most gotcha, in most situations, the project manager manages the internal client. Okay.

So there's usually an am pm team.

And then we'll have however many creatives depending on what type of project it is, usually, you know, a creative director, art director, writer. And then, you know, if there's TV involved, then you get into the producer, world. And sometimes, you know, there's a completely different digital creative teams, different social creative team. So it really depends on a where you are working, but

and just the type of project overall.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 14:49

Yeah. So how do you keep everything organized? And on track? So when you are dealing with all these people, like, what kind of tools do you use?

Nina Kopteka 14:57

So over the years, um, I think everywhere that I have worked has had a different project management tool. And back in the day, before, web based tools weren't a thing. There was always like, one tool for time tracking, and then another tool for invoicing and stuff was just kind of all over the place. Now, luckily, there's more, you know, you can get a cloud based app. And that, honestly, has been a project management, Savior. I mean, honestly. So over my last couple jobs, or at my last couple of roles I've had, I've been introduced to smart sheet, which I think is probably, I think, the most comprehensive pm tool. Because it's it's just very simple. But it's one of those where you can have multiple people in the document at the same time, it's updating in real time. You can assign, you know, tickets to people, and, you know, they'll check them off. And it's I mean, there are a few other programs that are pretty much the same. I just have kind of fallen in love with spreadsheet. And I use it even in my like

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 16:26

person. Yeah, I was gonna say, for people that are listening, that are their own bosses and their their own their own team, you know, maybe they don't even have anyone else working for them. And at times, you might be that way too, because you own your business. Yeah. So how do you keep yourself organized on top of like, so like, how do you keep your business organized on top of working on other people's businesses?

Nina Kopteka 16:46

Well, I've got my own sheet. Okay. And so the thing with smart sheet is that there's different tabs basically, within the document. And so I've got my Nina's to do today list, and it's, it's a checklist and the So, you know, and, and it's always open, and it's an app on my phone. And if there's something that I like, think about halfway through the day, I'll just add it. And, and it's there. You know, and I actually I do, I've got a couple small business clients that I that aren't even very tech savvy. And so I've been able to share their sheets with them, and they are actually able to understand it too. Well. And that is, that's half the battle. Yeah, sometimes.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 17:35

How do you deal with clients that don't? I mean, that's the hard thing about working with certain clients that just don't get it like they don't get the digital are there? They're very, it. I think it makes everyone's job harder, because you have to explain everything. How has that been? Interesting? Yeah.

Nina Kopteka 17:56

Yeah, I mean, I just make sure to keep it as basic. Yeah. And it knock on wood. It's been working. Yeah. But I definitely as the as the pm slash, account person, you know it. I definitely, like keep an eye on everything to make sure that it's all happening. And yes, pseudo timely manner.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 18:26

Yeah. So how do how do you? Is it mostly word of mouth? Because you right now you're doing freelance. So you are kind of going on job basis. So how it is mostly to I'm not sure it's been not working. But like, is that kind of mostly how you get your jobs?

Unknown Speaker 18:38

Yeah, I

Nina Kopteka 18:41

I have been very lucky in our industry.

every agency that I've worked, I mean, I've so I've been it. I actually don't remember. I think I've been at six agencies and to client side. Okay. And the great thing about the creative industry in Minneapolis, is that you your network will always be there. Yes. If you leave every place on a on a good note, and I mean, I now in the last month have I've met coworkers that I haven't seen for 10 years. And they are so willing to help and so willing to, you know, just brainstorm. Yeah. And it's this industry and our city has in Minneapolis. St. Paul is I think we're pretty lucky.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 19:37

Yeah. There's so many agencies here. Yeah. And I people are always surprised. I went to a conference this weekend in Wisconsin, and people are like, oh, Minneapolis, like, they don't know anything about it. And I'm like, yeah, it's like a super creative city. Like it's like really like, pop, like pop in for certain things, you know, but people don't always realize that. So I think that's kind of interesting.

Nina Kopteka 19:55

Well, and the fact that you were in Wisconsin, yeah. That's what these people from like Chicago. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 20:00

They're like, Oh, Minneapolis. I don't know what that is like, No, no, no. Or some people came from like Virginia and like, bear with some people from like, out of like, out of the Midwest. And I was just like, I'm so used to being in Minneapolis. So it's hard to like, explain it to people, right. So I'm like, well, because I had and I said I mean, from an app, she's like, you're gonna have to, like kill me on a map. And I'm like, okay, cuz I was like, we're in Wisconsin. I was like, what's on the east part of Minnesota, which is on the west side of Wisconsin, I literally had to say that. And I was like, This is

Nina Kopteka 20:33

flyover country.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 20:36

But um, yeah. So, so kind of what's your what's your game plan for, you know, your business? Are you just wanting to go, you know, just hop to new businesses all the time,

Nina Kopteka 20:46

or I am working on finding my niche. I,

you know, I am a project manager for hire, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And, because that's just who I am. Yeah, um, I mean, anybody who knows me, and who has worked with me knows that that is my bread and butter. But, you know, recently over the, you know, last year or so, I've kind of like sat back to my, you know, PR roots and more communication. And, I mean, I even did production and, like, in college, and I was like, either going one way or the other. And so, you know, it just you kind of get to the point where you're like, well, I'm gonna do a little try a little bit. Again, yeah. And so yeah, I mean, I've had, I have a couple small business clients that I do web stuff and social media for, and I am on the board for a nonprofit that I do all of their web and social media. And so, I mean, if anything, it's just practice. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 22:01

That's true. And I think that a lot of people coming out of college aren't quite sure. Like, obviously can't become a project manager right away. I'm pretty sure there is it is that hard. And also, you kind of have to work your way up to project manager

Nina Kopteka 22:15

a little bit. I mean, you know, Project Coordinator as it could be okay. I like typically, the route is like, as coordinator,

you know, associate project manager, project manager, you know, that the career path or the title path is not super robust. Yeah. Which is also kind of why I at this point, I'm like, I'm going to give it a go on my own because, like, think about it, I'm so I'm at like, a director level at an agency now. And just think about it. There's one at every agency in town. Yeah. So it's like, okay, so there's only so many roles for that. Yeah. Right.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 23:00

And you can kind of make your own role. Yeah.

Nina Kopteka 23:03

And I love it, I honestly will always be a Dewar. You know, I've, I've managed people before, and I, and I really enjoy mentoring. But as long as I am still in the, I still love to be in the day to day. So,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 23:20

so one of the topics of this month is time management, is that something that you have to deal with as well? I mean, figuring out not only your time management, but the time management of others.

Nina Kopteka 23:33

Yeah, I mean, so there's so many, most agencies, it's hourly, you know, you're, it's how many billable hours you are working on a certain project. And that also equates to the invoicing process and all that. So when one of the main things that a pm does when a project comes in, is figuring out like, we're either by experience with a project or a client or working directly with the creative team to determine how many hours they think it's going to take to get them got a two point game. Sometimes those are wildly wrong. And you just feel go with this. But yeah, I mean, so based on like, internal reviews, and basically, just keeping the cadence and keeping everybody on task is, I mean, in the day to day of a PM, that's pretty much job one. Gotcha.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 24:36

That's really interesting, because I, again, don't know much about project management. I never actually have worked for an agency. So I'm kind of like, sounds so interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think I in another life, I probably would have, but it's just like, it's been a kind of an interesting journey for me as well, to get here. But yeah, so. So how, how has social media impacted you as a, from a marketing perspective? Because you said that you do that a lot for other people? Do you do that for yourself? as well?

Nina Kopteka 25:03

Um, I actually haven't started I don't, I haven't started doing it for my is my own company. I just have my own personal social media on my, on my website, but um, yeah, I mean, it's, as a pm. It's more about just learning the timing, how long it takes to execute us, you know, a Facebook carousel, you know, or if it's a video or, and then it's always good. I mean, we have to keep up on the little things, the character count the, you know, the 20% rule on Facebook, and the things that maybe aren't top of mind for for the creatives. And that's not necessarily like, a typical part of the job, but it's just a nice to know, because you're like, you're the trusted partner. Yeah. Yeah, for the business is that I do social media for I mean, social media is scary. For some for some yeah. Oh,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 26:07

yeah. That's so true.

Nina Kopteka 26:09

And, you know, I do social for a bar in the north loop, and a nonprofit, and then I also have another small business that I do, and they all it's, it's actually, like, really refreshing, when people don't think that they're a pro at marketing. You know, I mean, they all know what it is. They're, they're all out there on their personal accounts. But, you know, I think knowing that you want and need guidance is step number one for any small business.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 26:50

Yeah, one of the things that I learned on this retreat thing this weekend was that people will pay you to do what will take them 20 hours to do for sure, you know, because it's saving them time. They don't have to do it themselves. They don't have to learn it. I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs these days are having to learn everything, because they can't afford to hire it out. And that's kind of how I've been, and it's like, there are certain things I'm like, I would rather just pay someone to do that. Because I don't like that part of my job or whatever. For sure. Kind of how businesses work is. So people are paying you to do their social media, because they don't want to do it.

Nina Kopteka 27:21

Yeah. Or, yeah, or don't want to learn how to do it or don't want to keep up with all the rules. And you know, so. So that's actually been, it's a nice departure from My typical day to day.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 27:37

So yeah, yeah, that sounds awesome. Because I, it's, it's interesting doing social media for other people. It's definitely it's definitely I've done it for so yeah.

Nina Kopteka 27:47

I mean, actually, the most challenging thing for me is the approval process and social Okay, um, just because, like, it should be self, you know, like, when you're doing it for yourself, or when you know, that's true. Yeah, happens really quickly. I feel

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 27:59

I do it for myself, like I'm doing right now. Yeah, I've been to get it. Well, that's the interesting thing about like, stories and things that I'm so in the now like, I don't have to get approvals to do they do stories.

Nina Kopteka 28:12

The moat, the way I have one client, that is like a legit small business that I am definitely still not a pro at their audience yet. Okay. And so I try to figure that out. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 28:27

What is most of like, what where have you seen a lot of the audience's like, is it does depend on the age is it like depend on the like, the company's target, like, for example, like a lot of bigger businesses, Polly, or LinkedIn, or whatever. And then some of them on Instagram are smaller and more digital savvy. Is that kind of what you found? or?

Nina Kopteka 28:46

Yeah, I mean, I've done a ton of research on just which platform is best for what company? And it's interesting, because I saw the nonprofit that I that I work on, is run. It is a he's a professional hockey player, the person who started the nonprofit and the sports minded people are all on Twitter.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 29:12

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

Nina Kopteka 29:14

And so I kind of put Twitter way on the back burner, and have recently picked it back up again. And

I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of loving it again.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 29:25

Yeah, I Twitter is one of those things for me that some days. I love it. Some days. I hate it. Right? I think it depends. There are people that are literally not on it. And then the people that are always on it. I feel like there's no in between.

Nina Kopteka 29:38

There I there I see people on it who tweet 100 times a day. Yeah. Without fail. Yeah. And I'm just like, What are you? What else are you doing?

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 29:47

That's like me, I'm just scrolling on Instagram. That's me. Like, that was timed. Yeah. But um, no, that's, that's fascinating, because I think Twitter. It's Yeah, for the creatives. It's not as good, right? Because it's not a very visual medium. Right. But for certain people that like to talk or people that like to, I don't know, just yeah, I guess chat with people. Yeah. Social.

Nina Kopteka 30:10

And it. It is very social. And it's also very, I mean, for some people get their news. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I definitely do. And so, you know, it kind of fills it.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 30:21

It does. And it's I don't think it was what it originally was, I think it's definitely shifted, I definitely go if something happened in the news or something. I go on Twitter to see what people are like, yes, if there's some big announcement somewhere, I like to see what people are reacting to it. And, and I think every platform has its place for that, like, Instagram is definitely more for like events, like say you're at an event and I see the location and see what other people are like, I went to the Demi Lovato concert on Saturday, right? I wanted to go and see who else has been posting anyone that I know, like, maybe I have a friend here that I didn't realize was here, you know? Yeah. And then, you know, obviously, like Facebook is definitely and Facebook has definitely changed since they announced Mark Zuckerberg, now it's like a month ago that he's trying to make it more like community focus. So it's gonna be harder for pages to even get any organic reach.

Nina Kopteka 31:06

Yep. And I mean, that's, you know, working for yourself. It's hard. It's hard to have to pay, you know, you pay to play and to just even keep up on everything. Yeah, it's like, I don't want to I, I want to keep up on everything. But it's like, I don't want to be reading 24. Seven. True, like, what the newest algorithm is, and whatever. Yeah, but it's a lot.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 31:29

But I think that Yeah, and that's something that a lot of people get stressed about is Oh, I don't know what all the newest information. But, you know, I think the fact that you're doing it is really important, because I think not even having a social presence is terrible. Yeah. And I feel like the fact that you're even trying and that you're actually putting some sort of content out there is very admirable. So I think that any small businesses listening would be like, yeah, you should just keep doing it. Absolutely.

Nina Kopteka 31:55

And, I mean,

when, yeah, like news, like you said, a lot of new businesses, when they're starting out, they feel like they can't hire somebody to do that. They can't afford to, but there's always a way. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's better to put something out that, you know, maybe not as frequent,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 32:18

but it's like quality over quantity, right. And I think there's a lot of new grads to that are looking for work. And I know, I mean, paid internships are saying and, I mean, there's ways to get people that are of the digital generation now. Like everyone, I at least I feel like everyone I see that's graduating, like wants to go into social media. So it's like, there's lots of people Oh, yeah. But I do recommend making sure they understand the marketing side of social media, because there's a difference. I didn't know this. When I graduate. I was like, Oh, I get social media. I'm on it all the time. Yeah, I didn't realize that. There's a whole marketing perspective and branding. And there's so much to to having a plan in action, that a lot of people that just understand social media don't understand the brain, the business, I think that you have to have both in order to be good at social media. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's not just taking a picture, exact dog. And, you know, like, I see so many mistakes made on Instagram, that I'm just like, No. Why? I mean, it's just like, you have to have a reason behind it. If it's just throwing it up. There doesn't make any sense, right? And it's like, it's not just to have content, you have to have a reason. And and eventually, you also need to have a call to action. Yeah. Because it's like, if you're just posting pictures to post pictures, that's not going to get you anything. But if you're actually saying like, oh, something about the picture, you know, asking, I talked about this at the Instagram growth workshop, but like asking for a comment and like actually getting people to interact with you. And like, remember you? And that's like, the reason you're doing it,

Nina Kopteka 33:46

right? I mean, and that's why, like I said, the people who admit that marketing is not their forte, and ask for help. Yeah, I mean, that. I appreciate that so

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 33:57

much. Yes. And the people that go out of their way to educate themselves. So it's like, do one or the other, don't just sit there and be like, I don't get marketing, and then your business is not going to go anywhere, right? Because I don't think when people this is I talked about this too. When people go into their own business, the first year, it's like, at least 50%. Every time it's going to be marketing and sales. Yeah. Because no one knows who you are. You don't have any clients yet. You have to put yourself out there. And if you think it's just going to be you working on whatever you do for a living, you're very wrong. The mistake.

Nina Kopteka 34:27

Yeah, I mean, and honestly, I, so I've been on my own for like, a month and a half. Yeah. I mean, granted, I had been doing and you have

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 34:38

connections, you have years of connection, so

Nina Kopteka 34:40

and I've been doing other stuff on the side with a full time job. But yeah, I mean, it's talking about yourself is number one, not easy for women. Well, that's true. And yeah, and honest. And I don't know if it's a Midwestern thing or what, but I mean, it's just like, you want to be humble.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 34:59

Yeah, I just yeah.

Nina Kopteka 35:01

I don't like to just like go out and toot my own horn, or whatever. And it's like, but it's like, I do know what I have to offer and what I'm good at and but yeah, some days I'm just like, so not in the headspace. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 35:16

I think that was something I learned, again, at this workshop I went to this weekend, but like, these women that are so successful carry themselves in such a different way than the normal people they like, they like believe in themselves. I was so inspired, I was going oh my gosh, I need to dress better. And I need to just like be like, more strong and like the way that I present myself because people will believe you if you come across the way that you write, you know, and I was like, in you know, I always think I under I undervalue and undercharged myself. And it's like, you need to start believing in yourself. First, I got an email. This week, I'm not gonna name names, but like, she was struggling with pricing. And I was like, you know, and it was way lower than I think she should have got anyone I'm like that, like, you need to value yourself, your time. And value based pricing is a whole thing where it's if you're saving people time, that should be worth more.

Nina Kopteka 36:06

Yep. You know, and that, honestly, that is the other really difficult thing for me is, you know, I mean, because I'm also working with people who are in the same situation as me who are just starting out other entrepreneurs who, you know, one of my clients is, has a food truck. Yeah. And you know, she's not, you know, her, her money is kind of money in my out, oh, that's true. And it's just like, you want to do whatever you can, but then it's like, well, my rent is gonna come. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 36:42

that's true. That's why I think what you've done as smart as you've done stuff on the side, and I think building that up, and then going full time is much better than just dropping everything, having no income and having no clients, right. I feel like by building it up on the side, and then finally being like, okay, now I'm, I'm going to take the jump, and I'm going to leave.

Nina Kopteka 37:01

Yep. And so and because the way that everybody in our industry knows me is as a project manager, and that is a tangible skill, that, that anyone who's worked with me knows that I am more than capable of and, you know, are willing to recommend, yeah, me as a pm. You know, a lot of them. A lot of people may not know that I'm even doing social media, you know, so.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 37:30

So you kind of rebranding a little bit, a little bit. Yeah, that's good. Because I think for me, yeah, it's been the same for me. I've like definitely added skills. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm not doing that anymore. So then people like, wait, but I thought you did that. And I'm like, I decided not to. But like, yeah, I think it's good to like be known for something. And I feel like having a niche is good. Because I'm the kind of person that will refer someone because if somebody asks for something specific, say like a copywriter or graphic designer, I'm like, I know someone that does that specific thing. Yep. Instead of being a jack of all trades, it's like, well, I don't know what to refer you for, like you need to really, even if you can do multiple things like you need to be known for one, right? It's a big thing. And what is your specialty?

Nina Kopteka 38:08

Yeah. And then if anything else comes along with it.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 38:10

Yeah. And it's like sometimes people I saw website where she did like a different things. And I'm like, like you, I mean, I just still need something for you. But then you can add that on. For your clients. That's kind of my thought is like, do the one thing and then maybe have some like all occurred stuff. That's, that's,

Nina Kopteka 38:27

that's just all I have to say about that. And that was when I I mean, I didn't want to launch my consulting company without having a website. And I just, I finish it, I put it out there. And I've changed it.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 38:40

Five. I know I'm always changing, always, totally. And I we're going to be redoing the Twin Cities class website. And I'm actually using someone so that'll be exciting, because I always I do it myself. And I'm like I'm doing well. Thank you so much, Nina. I think that's the end of our interview. So how do we find you online? I know you said you haven't launched stuff for your brand yet. But like if we want to follow you

Nina Kopteka 39:01

on all my social and Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, I'm at Nina co Packer. My name is harder than it sounds. And my website is Nico and co.com. And yeah, I'm part of the Twin Cities collective. I'm part of a few different. I love the I love the women power groups that are coming out a lot coming around. Because I mean, honestly, we all just need advice, everyone. Yeah. And sometimes it's just nice to get somebody who you know, has gone through it.

Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 39:42

And I think that what's nice about tenses collective is there's a lot of different types of people and also different ages, different apps, you know, everything and so I'm where I learned from everyone. It's like, yeah, technically I deleted but I'm like, I'm, there's people in there that are way more experienced to me a lot of things and I'm like, I need your help. I'm not good at everything. Alright, well, thanks so much, Nina. Talk to you guys next week. Bye. Thanks.