Going from Agency to Freelance, The Power of Minimalist, How Social Media Affects our Lives & The Struggles of Being Your Own Boss

Going from Agency to Freelance

Chatting about the power of minimalism, how social media affects our lives & the struggles of being your own boss with @andylikesthings

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Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives.

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Hey, guys, thanks so much for coming this week.

Andy Whisney 1:10

Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited. This is awesome.

Jenna Redfield 1:12

Yeah, this is your first time guesting on a podcast. Yeah, ever. Yeah. Yeah. I used to it used to have one right?

Andy Whisney 1:18

Yeah. Yeah, I ran one for a little bit with my brother. I think we did about 10 episodes tried to do once a week, but our schedules just got too busy. And we had to not do it.

Jenna Redfield 1:25

Yeah. So did you do listen to podcasts all the time? Yeah,

Andy Whisney 1:28

your favorites. Oh, man. Uh, the probably some like strange. So like business. The ones probably like Tim Ferriss. I'm Big Joe Rogan fan. I really like to see a lot of those ones. I'm really into this one called mysterious universe right now. They talk about a lot of like, spooky stuff.

Jenna Redfield 1:47

Crime

Andy Whisney 1:48

kind of, um, there's a little bit of that. It's a lot of like, Ghost like big

Jenna Redfield 1:52

stuff. Kind of cool. I think that's found its niche in podcasting. I hope so. It was it. I just found out about this the other day, there's a crime con, like VidCon or, you know, Comic Con, there's a crime con. And it's like all the people from 2020. And like dateline, and then a bunch of like, podcasters that do like crime themed podcasts. Wow. And it happens. I think it's an Indianapolis. I was like, I would go to that.

Andy Whisney 2:16

Yeah, that sounds like interesting. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 2:19

there's so many weird niches on podcasting. Now like I don't even know I've fallen down rabbit holes and I go How do people have enough time to listen to all these that's my thought is I won't listen to all the podcast all the time, but I can't you

Andy Whisney 2:30

have to listen to it non stop. 24 seven do

Jenna Redfield 2:32

and there always is new ones coming out. And just like I can't keep up but I'm glad that people listen are so that's like, my thought is like the fact that they've like spent the time to download ours and listen to it is really awesome.

Andy Whisney 2:44

Yeah, that's gotta feel good.

Jenna Redfield 2:45

Yeah. So tell us about yourself. Like what do you do right now?

Andy Whisney 2:48

Yeah, yeah, so right now I'm a freelancer, small business owner. I usually err on the side of Freelancer contractor maybe Um, but yeah, so I do that. I do. Lot of paid social a lot of copywriting Google AdWords stuff, just mostly like just a lot of digital social media stuff. As of right now, I'm doing a lot of I'm a community manager and like a social strategist, we're really big software company. And then, you know, it's as big as that and as small as just running Facebook ads for local realtor things. Yeah. So any anywhere, you know, in the middle, yeah, that's you.

Jenna Redfield 3:25

And so let's talk about how you got to this. So how, like, when you when you went to college, or whatever, and graduated, or I don't even know if you were to college? Like, okay, I think you did, probably, but if you went to college, like what was your major? And like, what was your first job out of college?

Andy Whisney 3:40

Yeah, yeah. So um, when it's so weird looking back, yeah, years ago, years ago, so I was an English major. Okay, university, Minnesota. I was a design major before that at to other colleges, but ended up falling in love with just writing and short stories and stuff. So I went to the you, and then University Minnesota. And then first job out of college was that, like, my mom ran a call center for an insurance company. And so I did that for about a year, like 13 months. And then after that, I got into advertising, I became a copywriter at a local agency in Burnsville. So I started there as a copywriter. And I remember one one day, like one of my bosses came in and they're like, what do you like? What are you up to what's going on? I'm like, I don't know, it was like, probably two weeks in, because they didn't really know what they heard before. And they still they needed a writer, which kept trying to flesh out the position. And so I was like, Well, you know, all of our clients have like Facebook and Twitter, but they're not really doing much. Should I do that? And like, yeah, great, do that. And so I'm really helped build out that side of the business at that agency. So I just took on all the social media for all the clients. And then from the social media came like Google AdWords stuff. And then from there analytics and just follow, I was just kind of like a slippery slope, but in a good way. So yeah, I did that for about two and a half years. And then after that, went to a software company and ran their Google AdWords for about eight months. From there, this is kind of a career rehab, seriously, that's what I want to know. And then so from the software company, I went to an agency in the north loop, I was a media planner there for about three months. It was the reason it was so short was just like a so you know, I was a writer, right? I am a writer, quote, unquote. And being in like, Excel all day isn't the most creative thing you can do. And so I realized that pretty quick, after I started that I had to get out of there, it was great culture, the people were awesome. I like miss them to this day. But I just couldn't do that work, you know, all day, every day. Then from there, I became a, I was like a marketing specialist for a what's the word, a commercial real estate company where they owned various properties in St. Paul. So I help do their social media, their email campaigns, website, updates, all that kind of stuff. And then as of September of 2017, became full time freelance, just kind of realized it was, it became, you know, got to a breaking point where I was doing so much freelance stuff, and so much full time that I had to choose one or the other. And so I chose freelance. And so I've been doing that ever since I started doing freelance projects, probably, I think January 2016, is when I started freelancing, just like writing for people just randomly. And then obviously, like I said, became full time as a last September.

Jenna Redfield 6:24

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's kind of a journey that I feel like a lot of people that are now freelancers take a call from different jobs to then deciding, you know, what, I can just work with a bunch of different businesses, right? and kind of do be like a contractor for all of them. Right? Was that kind of what you thought you'd eventually do? Or was it more just kind of like, Oh, this is something I could do?

Andy Whisney 6:44

It was I think a little of both. When I when I started doing it in January, 2016. I was, you know, like, oh, wow, this is cool. I can kind of do work at my own pace, and whatever, whatever. And then, when it became more of a full time opportunity, it was like, Yeah, I could see my off doing this for the foreseeable future. Granted, you kind of take a financial hit. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure sure I get into, but at the same time, it was, I'd much rather take a financial hit, then have something way, in my way on me, like mentally, you know, have all those stresses and all that kind of stuff. And I

Jenna Redfield 7:16

think that's the biggest reason why people don't take the leap, for sure is the financial things. And I can talk a little bit I don't know if I've talked too much about like my journey. But I did. But like, basically what happened to me was I was at a job that I didn't love. And I had hit a breaking point. And I just said, I'm quitting. Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna just try my business full time. And at that point, I was like, growing my my side business, and I was just, I tried it. And I did for about nine months, full time. And then I was like, You know what, I need to get a job and just RE DO my business because I was not happy doing my own business. Which is so funny, cuz that's what I thought I want it. Yeah. So now right now, I'm like, I have a job. And then yet, I'm still doing stuff on the side. So I'm like, I need to built it up to a point where I feel fully confident in my business before I leave. So I mean, I guess it depends on the person, but I felt like I jumped before I was ready. And the only reason I jumped was because I didn't like the job. I was at sure was it because I was like, I'm ready to go full time. Yeah, business. Yeah,

Andy Whisney 8:15

that's a really that's a really important point. I think. Yeah, I think I'm the I'm the opposite in that. I was like, Well, I'm doing all this stuff, I guess I guess do this. Yeah. And we're now I'm probably sort of kicking myself. Because, you know, I'm learning as I go still. But yeah, that's that's a really yeah.

Jenna Redfield 8:31

It's like when it's like, when do you know you're ready? And that's always the question. And I think people are really scared of that jumping off point. But I think it's getting easier these days. Because people do stuff on the side. Sure. That it's like once that becomes overwhelming, then it's like, Okay, I think it's time Yeah, exactly. Yeah, as long as you're making money already. I think it's okay. Versus like, I don't recommend like quitting your job and having nothing. No, no. And like trying to build it. Like you're gonna go like crazy. Yeah, you're gonna be so much more worse off. Like you build up a little less little cushion on Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a whole, like, I've so many paths. Like, there's so many things about like saving money. And yeah, I lived at home for a few years, because I was like, I just didn't feel ready to be on my own financially. And it wasn't until last summer that I that it's funny because I quit my job in January. And then I moved out in June, will still been full time. Yeah, my business and I was like, Yeah, I need to I need to actually make some more money. Sure. But let's talk a little bit about how we met. Yeah, I feel like that, like people are probably like, how do you guys know each other? Um, I think we met on Twitter. I

Andy Whisney 9:42

think it was Yeah, like a Twitter. Yeah, probably. I think

Jenna Redfield 9:45

I think what happened was, is I follow you were probably at social media breakfast, and I follow everyone that goes on the on the live Twitter feed, and that's probably how we met. And then I was like, I never met him before. But yeah, that has to be that's probably it. And then I feel like we finally met that, like a social media breakfast, I think at one point for a while. Yeah, but then like I saw last time I saw you was at that Hutton house thing. Yeah, the thing. Yeah. And I think we sat we sat by each other. Yeah. Same table. Yeah. And so yeah, we've only met like maybe three four times. For like,

Andy Whisney 10:18

yeah, like three years. That's the beauty of the community. Yeah. Social media to right. You feel like you know, these people. Exactly.

Jenna Redfield 10:25

That has happened me so many times with people. Yes. I've been like there's still to this day, people I've been on Facebook friends with for like three years. I still haven't met them yet. Local. And I go every time like we're at the same event. And I like see them in a distance. I should say hi. And I never do. But yeah, because because you were doing I'm trying to remember what you were doing at that point. When I met you is probably social.

Andy Whisney 10:47

Yeah, I think it was either. It was probably either social at the agency software at Google AdWords at a software company. It was probably around that time, but because then I was I was volunteering for Yeah, breakfast. Oh,

Jenna Redfield 11:00

that's what it was. Okay. Yes. Because I knew Amanda. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So she was a friend of mine. I she was on the very first people I ever met in the online business world in the Twin Cities. That's awesome. So yeah, so she's really awesome. And I still I saw her at randomly at a apple orchard. Oh, nice. Also, it's just like, I haven't been the social breakfast mom. I'm going to this month though. It's got sales funnels, nice versions. I'm like, I need to go. If anyone's listening. You guys should check out social media breakfast. When is it? I think it's the let me look at my calendar, which I have right here. It is on the 25th of May. So it is a Friday. They always do it on Fridays. I think it's up by 14 I'm assuming

Andy Whisney 11:42

Yeah, that's right.

Jenna Redfield 11:44

Um, yep, it is. So, um, so you. So what are the like, what has been the hardest part about the transition from being employed to being self employed?

Andy Whisney 11:54

Oh, man, it's, um, it's so hard to pin it down to one thing, but I would say I don't want this to make the discipline for sure. be disciplined enough to like get your stuff done timely and correctly. You know, I mean, we're human, we all make mistakes is what it is. But definitely the discipline of of kind of getting things done in a timely manner. And not to say that I obviously I'm on my game now. But to start, it was very touching go because look at all this freedom, I had to walk the dog, I can do laundry, and whatever. So I think that is definitely one of the main things to I guess, be aware of, if like, if someone listening is wanting to go freelance or do their own thing, yeah. Also just, you know, finances as a whole, right? Like, there's health insurance stuff, there's dental, there's all these things you don't necessarily think about, and then we'll kind of once you're in the game, you've got really got to think about them. I think those two have definitely been the biggest sort of weaker uppers, you know what I mean. And it was definitely, definitely a lot of growth involved to like I said, when I first started, I probably wasn't the most disciplined when I first started, I probably wasn't the best financially. But you know, the fact that clients can can say, can end a contract whenever they want, essentially, I mean, unless you're locked into some contract, whatever things can happen, and things can go away. So you really got to be smart about your not only your time management, but your money management as well. So if I can give any pieces of advice, it's to be really cognizant of those two things. I mean, not only if you're full time employed, but also if Yeah, if you're freelance,

Jenna Redfield 13:33

because I have a, I don't know if I should. name names, I have a friend who recently got laid off. And I'm just like, it's like the same as being a freelancer. Like, you have to have somewhat of a backup plan, or you have to, like, have that network available. And you start applying for jobs. And and basically, being a freelancer is like always applying for jobs. Sure. Yeah. That's kind of what it is. Because you're always, you know, interviewing with potential clients. Right? And so it's like, you have have to get really good at convincing people to work with you. How have you kind of learned to do that or get get your leads to like, work with you?

Andy Whisney 14:08

Yeah, so I've been lucky enough. So my brother and I worked together on a lot of this stuff, he's full time employed, and in California. But on the side, we do a lot of digital and social media marketing for various people that he knows in his like network in California. So he's a salesman, like through and through. So that's been a great resource in terms of work, which hasn't really dried up yet. Knock on wood. But, you know, when it comes to myself, you know, honestly, it's been a lot of so I found a lot of my jobs and especially starting out on the site up work from Yeah, and, you know, there is like, it's like a, I don't even know how you would explain it, you basically put together a profile. And then you you create like a portfolio portfolio, you have like an elevator pitch, like a resume, cover letter, all that kind of stuff. And you can apply to jobs, just digital, and then people can reach out to you or you can set up a phone call, all that kind of stuff. So I think starting there was huge for me, because I'm not like the most outgoing in terms of like, I'm an INFJ. I'm super introverted. I'm also funny.

Jenna Redfield 15:15

Well, I was let's just say, okay, I've I've become Okay, I've taken that test couple times. Sure. The first time I took it, I was nine FJ the second time I took it as an ENFJ. And then the third time I took it as an NFP. I'm like, why do I can't change it has

Andy Whisney 15:28

to depend on like the day you're having a true but

Jenna Redfield 15:31

I do think I become more extroverted. So I think that's really changed from it was I was way more introverted in college. Okay, right. And so I think once I graduated, I become a lot more extroverted. So I, I don't know, so I wasn't IFTA. So I guess, in that way, I'm not a sales person at all. That's not my thing. I'm very terrible at sales. That's probably my biggest issue with running around. That's sure

Andy Whisney 15:52

else. It's It's so hard to like, That's why, you know, when it comes to up work, I mean, you can put together a cover letter and say, Hey, here's your resume, whatever, and say, here, here's everything I've done. Take it or leave it. Yeah, you're in person. It's, um, it's way harder for me to,

Jenna Redfield 16:07

I think, Well, I think the work speaks for itself, though. Anyway. So it's like, if you're good people probably hire you. And so is that kind of what you found? Or is that Yeah,

Andy Whisney 16:16

yeah, for the most part. Um, yeah, I think so. I've just never, you know, I've never I don't know how to put this. I've never really had a bad experience in terms of like an interview per se. Somebody doesn't like your Yeah, yeah. Or things things just, like fall through. If, you know, if they were meant to be they're not meant to be. I'm not gonna, like try to lose sleep over it. But yeah,

Jenna Redfield 16:39

I mean, I think that being I guess, I don't know, I don't, I don't like to call myself an artist, but I guess I am sure. Yeah. It's like, there's that sensitive artists thing where, you know, you and your work are so tied together that like if somebody doesn't like it, you do you feel personally, if I Oh, my gosh, 110%.

Andy Whisney 16:55

More, we were just talking before the podcast started, like I had a really bad day to day especially. And it's like, I'm not gonna get over for like a week. You know, and I mean,

Jenna Redfield 17:04

I'm also an empath, which means that I am, like, have the biggest sense of empathy. But like, I tend to also be very sensitive when people do say things to me. So I, I really internalize it and put it on myself, even if it's not my fault. Exactly. And it's like, I think that's the hardest part about being a freelancer is you have to build a thick skin. Yes, totally criticism for rejection for anything like people. I had a lot of issues with when I was a video editor. That was my biggest stressor was people just had a vision. And I didn't fit that vision because I couldn't read their mind. And they couldn't explain it to me, Oh,

Andy Whisney 17:46

my gosh, that, that

Jenna Redfield 17:48

that, like, stresses me out. I know. That's why I couldn't do it anymore. I was like, How am I supposed to read your mind? I tried to like educate them on like, what they could potentially do or like what I was capable of doing. But it was like, in their heads. They had a vision. And I wasn't feeling it, because I didn't know what the heck they want it. Yeah, yeah, that sounds impossible. It was and I that's why I think being an editor is so hard. And but it's I love editing itself. And I love doing it for me when I have a vision, I can create it. But when I'm trying to do it for other people I struggle with, what do they want. And it's easier for other things. When you're, you know, a writer, I feel like it's a little bit easier, or but I feel like when you're kind of like a visual painter or something like it's like, it's your interpretation of what they want, or can't always like, what that's when you lose the art is when you're trying to just fill an order of somebody like this is exactly what I want. Yeah. But it's like you have to put your own creative spin to it. Yeah. And I feel like that is the part I felt like I lost when I was doing video editing, because I was like, I have no creative control. Yes, at all. Yeah. And it was really annoying.

Andy Whisney 18:53

That's insane. Like, and I imagine you probably got burnt out a little bit. You shouldn't like doing it for yourself.

Jenna Redfield 18:58

And I think it took the joy out of Exactly. And so this last December, when I decided I was doing a lot I was working here. I was doing 20s collective. And then I was doing my business where I was doing custom photos, and video editing, and just stock photos. And I and my life coach said, Jenny have to pick one of you had like, obviously you have to work. So you have to work for financial reasons. But you have to pick either twins, this collective regenerative designs, and I was like, well, I loved Wednesday's collective. It's my favorite thing ever. General design just stresses me out. But it brings me more money. So then she's like, why don't you just try to do twins collective and then try to make money that way? And I was like, that's a great idea. Sure. So I decided to do so that's why it was like a huge deal for me to quit my business, folks. I've been growing it for last three years. So I was like, so that would but I was like I have this as backup for income. Sure, in terms of like, I'm not like leaping from one to the other with nothing to start. Because at that point, I wasn't making any money at 20. Yeah. And the only that to this point, most of the money I've made is from the workshops. And so I'm trying to figure out how to even grow that more. Sure. So now that you're doing your own work, how much creative freedom do you have in it? versus like what people ask you to do?

Andy Whisney 20:12

Yeah, it kind of it kind of varies from client to client, but the software company and doing social for they're very regulated. And they're like, All right, here's everything you can do like don't do, don't don't, yeah, just do ever do these things. And then there's a couple there's another one like a restaurant and my brother and I are starting with where they're basically like here, like, here's our passwords, just kind of figure it out. And we'll sign off on it. Yeah, but start here and see how it goes. And then also, you know, I have this, this is very side projects like blogging, YouTube missing all that stuff, where obviously you can do whatever you want.

Jenna Redfield 20:43

Yeah. And it's great. Yeah, I think that's what a lot of people love is just being able to have their own voice and not have to have any interference. Yeah. So how did you get started? Cuz you bought a blog for a long time? Yes. And I think it sounds I met you.

Andy Whisney 20:55

Yeah, it's before that it was it was always on and off. Like, I would always start it and then never keep with it. But I think I started in January 2015. And it was originally it's called Andy likes things calm little. It, it originally was gonna, I didn't have like a vision for it. And then something happened in January 2015, where I really had to step back and take a look at like my life as a whole. And I turned to like a minimalism blog. Like it was all my journey about like minimalism, like minimizing getting rid of things, people all that kind of stuff for my life. And so it was it was essentially like a hard reset of like, my life as a whole. And then from there, it's really morphed into like, like menswear product reviews, all that kind of stuff. So it's, it's really kind of it's it's changed a lot since the inside.

Jenna Redfield 21:40

That's every blog I've ever read. It has to be right. Yeah, mine. I don't even know. I tried to be like a lifestyle blogger. Yeah. Now I, well, I know, I'm gonna start doing more about business. Cool. So I think that that's like something that a lot of people do to be creative. And then you say you have other things you said blog was the other,

Andy Whisney 22:00

oh, just do Instagram stuff. Stuff, YouTube, sort of an extension of my blog, essentially. So I'm just, I'm just like, there's so many new things, to try different things. And it's like, it's, you know,

Jenna Redfield 22:13

all right. Well, we're gonna be right back with a quick break. We'll be right back.

This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Studio co work a co working space in Golden Valley. This studio opened in summer of 2017. It was previously a radio station for many years, and now has become a co working space as well as private offices for small businesses and entrepreneurs. So if you're interested in not spending your day on the couch and actually getting work done, you should definitely check out studio co work because they have desks you can work at as well as just like free coffee and all this stuff. You can also meet with clients and private offices spaces, which so you don't have to sit in a noisy coffee shop. If you're interested in learning more about studio cork, and all the different pricing and availabilities for memberships, make sure to go to studio cork calm and let us know you found out through the podcast. So we do all of our Twin Cities, collective events there as well as I work there. So that's really fun. So I hope that you guys enjoy that make sure to go to see a cork calm. And some of you guys know, we record the podcast at Studio Americana. So I want to tell you guys a little bit more about studio America because they're awesome. And they make this podcast sound amazing. So they're actually a recording studio that is designed to help businesses and organizations create high quality podcasts, live streams, webinars, and more. I have been a witness to this. And it's awesome. The way that they set it up, they make it super easy, because they do all the consulting, editing and publishing services. So you don't have to worry about the techie side of creating a podcast, they have access to voiceover talent. So if you don't want to be on on anything, you can just do it, have somebody else do it. It's also ready for any level of project. So it's something super basic or something really complicated. They have all the capabilities. So if you are doing a lot of podcast with in a different state or a different country, they have a full phone system dedicated to that with integration with online services like Skype, so that you won't lose connection, which is super awesome. Thanks so much for NFZ Americana for producing the podcast and I hope that you guys learn more about them. So let's get back to the podcast.

Alright, we are back with Andy, we are talking about the creative side of I guess running your own business and doing stuff on the side. So you said you your blog is now about like minimalism, or it was about Muslim minimalism. I think minimalism is a very interesting thing, cuz I'm not good at that. Yeah.

Andy Whisney 24:41

When I first started it's such a weird thing to not not weird in terms of like, I don't know, like put putting a label on it. Yeah, it's always been like a like a, an issue. Not an issue for me, but it's just been weird. But yeah, yeah. I mean, starting is like, Oh my gosh, like with me, it was like, okay, I've way too much stuff in my closet. Start there.

Jenna Redfield 25:01

That's probably my issue. Well, maybe not my clothes. I just buy a lot of stuff on Amazon. But I need it. That's my, I go out of my way to buy it because I want it Yeah. And then I can't like, think about living without it. That's like my, that's my issue of minimalism. But I do want to start doing more like capsule wardrobes type stuff where you have certain number of outfits. Yes. And then you can kind of like recreate stuff with them. Because for me, I tend to go towards very trendy things. And I and I read this the other day that it's like 70% of your wardrobe should be classics and 30% should be trendy. Interesting. And I was like that is a great way to think about it. Because I think it's like the other way for me. Sure. Like 70% is trendy and 30% is classic. Sure. So I'm really thinking about that now every time I go shopping for clothes is will is this classic? Because I feel like I need more of those and I need I need to kind of create things that are I've definitely been going more towards like basic colors like black and white. Versus five years ago, it was all pink shirt right now. So I think it's like it. Maybe that's the style today. I think the siloed today is very much like monochrome. Yeah, I don't know if you've seen that the hairy hipster

Andy Whisney 26:10

totally like if you look at any coffee shop, it's all black, white wood.

Jenna Redfield 26:13

There's a lot of leather jackets. Yes,

Andy Whisney 26:15

tons of those Jean jackets. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 26:16

it's kind of funny cuz I have a jacket from high school that I like never got rid of. And I'm like, now it's back into your head. But I remember you did this thing with the it was like a challenge about minimalism a couple years ago. Do remember that. Oh, I remember you posting about that live. I think it was a it was like a challenge.

Andy Whisney 26:37

Yeah, I'm trying to think back. It was. It was like a

Jenna Redfield 26:39

progressive men game. Yeah, yes. Okay. I was like, I knew a few people that were doing it. And it was where you get you get rid of like a few things. It's like one thing the first day two things.

Andy Whisney 26:47

Yeah. The third, I could never do that.

Jenna Redfield 26:50

I saw everyone doing it. I'm like, I couldn't do that. It was so

Andy Whisney 26:54

freeing. And what's crazy about it, too, is like you hear this? I don't remember 99% of those things that I got, right. Oh, that's true. So it's like, What? What is the bearing? Like? What kind of effect did actually have on your life other than just taking up space?

Jenna Redfield 27:07

Yeah. And I think I was talking about this today. Have you heard of Swedish death? claiming?

Andy Whisney 27:13

That a metal band? No.

Jenna Redfield 27:15

No, it's like, it's like when people die and going through their stuff. Okay. It's like a type of cleaning. Sure. Like, like, I was talking about this with a few people. And about, like, when you die, you leave so much stuff. Oh, my God, like my grandma passed away four years ago. And my step Grandpa, who is married to her is moving into a assisted living. And so we have to sell his condo, and it still has a lot of my grandma stuff, and then all of his stuff. And he's still alive. But it's like, we're kind of cleaning it as if he's, you know, he's like, 93. And so just like having so much stuff is like, Why? Why do you have so much stuff, right? Because it's like, no, who wants it when you go, right? So I think minimalism is like a thing that our generation has kind of started based on our like, parents and grandparents generation of like having so much stuff that we're like, we just don't want anything. Like, I don't want any of that stuff that they like, they're like, Oh, it's all for you. And I'm like, I don't want it. Yeah, keep it or throw it.

Andy Whisney 28:09

Yeah, totally. It's Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 28:11

it's also like, I think it just scatters your brain too. Because it's like, there's so much stuff everywhere. Like, I feel like it just drives me up a wall in terms of like clutter, but Oh, yeah,

Andy Whisney 28:21

it's the absolute worst.

Jenna Redfield 28:24

And I'm bad at cleaning. So it's like, I have less stuff then. Exactly. Exactly. And that's my thought. Yeah. All right. We probably get back sorry, went off on a tangent, but uh, so what's the difference for you between like being a freelancer versus like being a business owner? Like what? Like, is there like, is that term weird when you say that you're a freelancer? Do you get like weird feelings? I don't

Andy Whisney 28:44

I don't think so. I think I'd get weirder feelings. If I was like I said, I was a business owner. Really? To be honest. Yeah. Really? Yeah. It's interesting. I can't I just can't wrap my head around myself owning a business. Okay. Because it was never like a goal of mine. Yeah. And I mean, and it was never in. I never thought about doing that. You know, growing up, you're like, cool. Go to college. Get a job. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. So I feel better saying Freelancer contractor. Not better, but it's a different

Jenna Redfield 29:10

feel like more like it's more of you right now. Yeah, exactly. And you're not like putting on a mask of being like, I'm an entrepreneur. Right. Exactly.

Andy Whisney 29:17

Because there's there's so much weight I think associated with those terms.

Jenna Redfield 29:21

But how do you like do do your friends that aren't freelancers understand it?

Andy Whisney 29:26

Yeah, yeah. Well, for the most part. They're like, Oh, so you just work from home all day? Yeah, sometimes, but that's not all. It goes in. Yeah. All that goes into it. Um, but yeah, they, my parents don't really understand yet. My dad's always like, when you're gonna get a real job. And I have one. So yeah, you know what I mean, but for the most part, people, people get it. They I think it's too like our generation, especially, they're more than just know what it is. Where's my dad who's older? My mom was older. They don't understand it fully. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 29:54

like I have family members who are just like, but what about the health insurance? Yeah, what about the benefits are? I'm like, the benefit is, is that I can do what I love. Yes. I can be my own boss. And yeah, I I it's funny because most of my friends like most of my like daily friends. None of them are like, even into social media. Like none of them have Instagram's.

Andy Whisney 30:17

No, no, if I can jump in, yeah. Do you find that more refreshing to have like a group of people who aren't? Because you're so involved with it on a daily basis? Or is it more annoying? It is?

Jenna Redfield 30:27

I think what's fresh, the most frustrating part is the fact that they think it's weird that I have social media. So I feel like like, when I'm with people that do social media all day, like I feel very at home, when I'm with them. They're like, Oh, why are you taking out your phone all the time and taking pictures and like they always like, they like laugh it they don't like laugh at me. It's like It's like in a loving way. But like they're like, Oh, Jenna is the branding girl or Jenna like clubs, like social media, like we play games were like board games where they have to, we have to like describe each other. And it's always like social media. Jenna, I'm like, Okay, I get that. Like, I'm social media. But that's like my whole. And that's what I'm like, is that while they think of me like that's, that is like a fear of mine is like, I don't want to just be known as someone who's like always on the internet, even though I love the internet. And that's a huge, huge part of my life. Yeah, I want to be known for more than that. Sure. So I think that's my struggle, but it is refreshing the fact that they are not like having to like pose and do selfies, like a Instagram or something which I do think it can get superficial for certain. Yeah, definitely. And it's like, you always have to be on or you always have to. But I guess it's like, I like that balance, I guess of having friends that don't like my roommate doesn't have any social media. She only has Facebook doesn't mean anything. And she barely posts on there. You know, I think it's like just trying to figure out like that balance. And even me, like I love be like Instagram is like, obviously my like my biggest one. I'm always on there. Sure. And it's and I find it it's like so it's so great. Because I just feel like I'm seeing people all the time. And it's just like, I feel like there's such a community on there.

Andy Whisney 31:58

Yeah, it's it's crazy. Yeah. 100% agree with you. Because you're right. I mean, the the community there is so strong, especially locally. And the amount of creativity that comes out of it is so inspiring, just on a basis. At least, you know, for me, I'm yeah.

It's It's great. It's my favorite for sure. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield 32:19

And I think that's changed because I went to this conference a couple weeks ago in Milwaukee, and they were talking about about Pinterest. And I'm like, I used to be really, really into Pinterest like back when like 2011 2012. Sure. And this was kind of pre Instagram. I think I think Pinterest came out before Instagram.

Andy Whisney 32:35

Yeah, I think you're right. It's probably

Jenna Redfield 32:37

Yeah. And I think Instagram had it. I like I got it. And I was like, Is this just like editing photos? Like I was just like, not, it wasn't a community at that point. I was more just like, here's something I did today. And I was like, This is stupid. Yeah. And I obviously it's completely changed. And it's now an art form and all that stuff. But at the time, I was just like, this is for me. Sure. And there was also a lot of other, I thought it was just a photo editing app, because it was all about the filters, right? That was like what Instagram was I was like, okay, and I think once Facebook bought it, then it like, changed into more like a social thing. Yeah. Because at the time, it was only like, I look back at my old Instagram. I got like one or two likes on every photo. Like it was like just like my cousin like, yeah, just like, like it wasn't a stretch. I don't know. It's just and it also they all look terrible. So it's Yeah, I'm just it's just crazy. But um, so I think Instagram and like that's a huge part of twins is collected is in our Instagram. And I knew because it was a local community Instagram as a way better platform than Pinterest for Oh,

Andy Whisney 33:34

yeah, totally.

Jenna Redfield 33:35

Because we talked about this on podcast last week. Pinterest is a search engine and not a social media network. Hmm. Okay. Because Pinterest, no one comments on pins, right? No one cares who they're following. It feels very transactional. Yeah, it's very much an educational thing. And like, I don't even know who the person is that wrote the pin that I just pin. Yeah. Unless it's like someone who is very branded and like, I recognize their work. Sure. I'm just that photo

Andy Whisney 34:01

know, one thing I've not recently but I like found out not found out either just like realized, I guess is the right word. A lot of the Pinterest stuff, at least that I repin and look at is really old.

Jenna Redfield 34:15

issue with that. Okay, so what happened is is so it's like, it's like, SEO, it's like the older it is, the better? Sure, kind of right in terms of if you guys don't know anything about SEO, the older a domain is, the more you have like credit on the internet, because Google doesn't always trust new websites. They're like, Oh, it's probably gonna go away in a year. Sure. But if they've been around like 10 years, it's like, Okay, this business obviously is like exists. Sure. And I think with Pinterest, if it was pin, like four or five years ago, it's still is like relevant. Yeah, at least to pin Pinterest eyes, because it's like, like, I had a pin that didn't start getting pinned until a year and a half after I pinned it. And then all of a sudden, it was like viral. And by that point, not viral, but like viral for that keyword. And so if people type it was on YouTube, that was what it was called. It was called, How to create intros for YouTube channel or something. And then at that point, I started getting a lot of people messaging me saying, Jenna, can you create a video intro for me, I saw your post on Pinterest. And then at that point was when I stopped doing video, and I'm like, crap, why did this go viral? Now when I'm like, changing directions in my business, right? So now what I'm trying to do is like redirect them to say, Hey, I can teach you how to do it yourself. Because that's my new businesses more like consulting and like helping people do it themselves. Awesome. Yeah. So instead of doing it for them, I love I realized I love education more nice and actually doing it. Yeah, I still have to know how to do exactly right. That's the thing is, is you have to be skilled at it, but you don't have to do it for them. Right. And that's like what I love. So that's why I'm like launching this new service where I'm just like, helping people with setting up stuff. Sure.

Andy Whisney 35:51

So that's awesome.

Jenna Redfield 35:52

But yeah, so you said that so the reason so is another reason that you don't like being called a business owner is because you don't like the business side of it.

Andy Whisney 36:00

Maybe that's probably like, there's probably something to that. And then my psyche. Yeah, I guess. I just, and not that I wouldn't ever want to be, you know, labeled as that. And my brother and I are moving towards becoming more like business owners and having that kind of be our storefront. Exactly. So that'll obviously change but i don't i just i think it's it's, it's I just know, I'm such like a goof like a goofball and just a silly goose that that I like running a business just doesn't equate in my mind. You know what I mean? But it

Jenna Redfield 36:32

just don't feel serious enough to exactly. I think that your business is what you make it and I feel like if you are a goof, then that should be your brand.

Andy Whisney 36:41

Yeah, no, that's, that's you're totally right.

Jenna Redfield 36:44

Yeah. And I think for me, like I was, I mean, I guess I it depends on where you are at your life, because I really love the color pink. And so my brand was all pink. But then I got really sick of pink was like everyone thought of pink and me and I'm like, I don't know if I want that. Yeah. So I think it's just, it's okay to, I guess, evolve. And I think for you, like you'll figure it out over time, like what people like from you. Right? Right. And not just like who you are, but like what you put across the people like resonate with?

Andy Whisney 37:15

Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Like,

Jenna Redfield 37:16

how does your so how do you? I guess it's Instagram? How do you use your Instagram then as a marketing tool for yourself? Or is it more just for fun?

Andy Whisney 37:24

I think it's a, maybe a bit of both. I turned it into like a business page or whatever. tied to my Facebook page. But I don't know I just trying to be like, authentic, I guess and that Yeah, we're thrown around so much that that it's it's kind of wonky, but I, you know, I just I like to take photos now. I'm like, I'm, I just have a lot of fun taking pictures. And then, you know, just putting my spin on it. I don't know. I just try to I just try to have fun with it while still making something look good. I suppose that Yeah.

Jenna Redfield 37:56

And I think Yeah, because I feel like, I don't like when people take an Instagram and they just post like a bunch of text posts about their business. I'm like, that's not what Instagram Yeah,

yeah, totally like, or it's just I'm like, it's not like you need to show you, you need to show who you are. And I think there's some people that do a really good job of it, where they not only show themselves, but they do promote themselves at times, but it's not like the whole Instagram. Right, right. I guess. And

Andy Whisney 38:22

yeah, yeah. No, it's, um, it probably it probably depends on the messaging and the sort of person they want to get across. But yeah, you're right. I mean, I see all these I talked to a guy via email, like, you know, we just we talked about, he's some influencer guy and blah, blah. And I was like, so what's up? Like, I could obviously, always get better at it. And he's like, yeah, you gotta pick a theme, and this and that. And it's like, I mean, that's great. If you can do it, and you want to do and all that stuff. I'm not anti that by any means. But to me, it's like, all right. I've been on it since 2012. Like, what? Is it too late to kind of do that? will it look weird if suddenly there's some color scheme associated with it? Yeah, I think that people are really good at that. I want to be good at two. But it's like, how and when

Jenna Redfield 39:05

I've had that exact same situation where I'm like, should I pick like a filter and stick with that? Only? Yeah, and like right now, but at the same time, I, I struggle to come up with images sometimes. Just because I'm like, I haven't taken any photos in the last week. Yeah. So I'm like, so sometimes I just, I go outside and take pictures on my phone, because I'm like, I don't have time to like, set up my camera and stuff. So recently, I've been better at posting at least once a day on my personal because I post every day weekday on Wednesdays class. And that's easy. Because it's curated. Yeah. And it's not always my images. But with my personal online. I gotta like, find images to put up, you know, and all that stuff. And I think for me, I just kind of stopped caring about the theme. Sure. I had, there was a guy that I went to high school with who's like really famous in LA. And he's like, he was on Disney Channel and all this stuff. And yeah, so he's got I think he has a million followers on Instagram was crazy. Yeah. But he was on a movie. I remember I follow Him, because I'm like, I remember him from high school. But he was he was talking about how he met up with some influencer girls, like from YouTube that were like, you have to have a theme. And so he's like, I don't really want to pick one. So I'm going to go with black and white. And we just did black and white for like, probably six months. And then recently, he started being like, screw this. I just want to post color pictures. Really? Yeah. Good for him. Now. He's just like, whatever. So I'm like, that's cool. Yeah, I think well, to original point. Like,

Andy Whisney 40:20

it can change too, right. Like you can, it can be one thing for a while. And then it can Yeah, it can be something else.

Jenna Redfield 40:25

Yeah. I just think it's too restricting. When you like, can only post certain types of I don't know, I tend to just kind of like, I want to look good and look good together. But they don't have to be like all one color. Right? That was like my issue. Yeah. So I think I'm getting over that. And I think that it's like, I'm never going to be like 100,000 followers on my personal account. Sure. That's not you know, I'm i have i think i think i have like 2800. And most of that was because I switched it from my business to my personal and I had a lot of people following my stock photos. And I was like, well, you're gonna just get me now. Yeah. So I've had some people like, like, follow that were originally just falling for my stock photos. But I've had people follow me locally that are like, Oh, I want to follow your Sure. So I think it's just like, I changed directions in my business. So now it's like, I'm changing my Instagram content. Yeah, it's have you. So how have you evolved, I guess on Instagram, over time. I think it I attributed a lot to just buying a digital camera, like inexpensive digital cameras and lenses. It was an investment, but it was my roommate was doing it for the company. He worked and he was really good at it. So let's try that and see what it would look like nice. And then it just kind of, you know,

Andy Whisney 41:34

turned into what it is now. Which is super, super fun. I to struggle with that. Like I haven't I haven't posted a day or two. What am I going to do, which is a weird mental stress to have it is you know,

Jenna Redfield 41:44

it's like you want to stay relevant, right? Because it somebody told me I posted something yesterday on someone's like, you should take a social media break. And I was like, because I was talking about I was like I was like all stressed out and stuff. And I was like, but I lose the momentum. Yeah, I did that. I just fear that. People would stop caring. Sure. If I quit for a week. That's like always my thought. Yeah, like, I don't want to stop the momentum. And I think that's the same with anyone that's trying to build anything. They are afraid to take a break because they're building and building and building. But yeah, at the same time, you have to have that mental break. And like self care at the same time.

Andy Whisney 42:21

Yeah, you're totally right. And it's, I struggle with that too. But at the same time I've there's an idea or a thought that people aren't thinking of you as much as you think they're think that's

Jenna Redfield 42:33

true,

Andy Whisney 42:34

right? It's so true, what it's, but I 100% get we're coming from because it's like you don't want to build, you don't want to lose that momentum. Because while you're building your audience, all these things will happen since I've been consistent. But at the same time, I think a break is definitely needed at that certain time

Jenna Redfield 42:47

when you start to miss them, which is a good soccer. Yeah. Because it's like, oh, that means that you really do care. And when they come back, you're really excited. Right? Right, right. I follow a few like youtubers pretty like, like I look at their faces. I'm like, at least once a day just to see if they posted any new stories or you know, post and when they haven't posted in a few days. I do notice. Yeah. But it's just like, but I don't really I'm not like mad at them. I'm just like, okay, they haven't posted, like, I'm not like dang it. Why haven't you post it? You know? Yeah, so I think Yeah, I don't think people care. And like, for me, I feel like with twins, this collective, I'm always trying to be a certain way. Like, I'm always trying to come across a certain way. Sure. And be consistent in that. Because it's like, if all of a sudden I just completely go crazy and like do all these random things. People people will be like, what, like, I was so used to being one way. So it's like, even though we've transitioned over time, it's like it's a slow transition, right? So that people aren't like, freaking out being like, what happened? Why are you all like,

Andy Whisney 43:41

Yeah, why is it so different now? Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 43:42

cuz I mean, I, I, it's so funny when I do twins. This collective I feel like I always know what I'm doing. Which is the weirdest thing ever. Because with my own business, I'm like, I'm doing Sure. Just like I don't know it just like I feel like something a sign. It does. And I and I feel like I always am, like, inspired and like wanting to try new things. I think it's also because it's the name and not me.

Andy Whisney 44:05

It's as a really good.

Jenna Redfield 44:06

And I think like that is why a lot of people put a business name and not their personal name when it's my personal name. That's my business. So my businesses Jenna Redfield Consulting, I feel like it's like it's on me. Sure. When it's twins. These cochlea, people might think, oh, there's like multiple people working there. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Right. You know, but it's like, I feel like I have like a mask on. And I feel like if I like follow someone as twins, he's like, dude, I'm like, it could have been our social media person that followed you. I thought is like I feel like not as scared to, like, reach out. Yeah. As like a like a brand versus like me. Right? I don't know if you feel that way. No, totally.

Andy Whisney 44:43

It's and that's and that says a lot about you. Because, you know, where people just say, Oh, so and so they can follow me back and bah blah. It's like, Yeah, no, I did that.

Jenna Redfield 44:54

People don't know. I mean, unless they're really like, active followers. like they've watched all of our stories, are they? CASS they know it's me. But if it's just some random person, that's like, I've heard of Twin Cities collective, they have 10,000 followers. Oh, they follow me back. Yeah, blah. Like that's cool. Like to them. It's more of just like, it's a brand, right. And they don't really think too much about who's behind it. So that's the thing is, so we were going to talk about this so you haven't like filed an LLC or anything?

Andy Whisney 45:23

I don't know if I like it. So my brother, my mom do all like the heavy lifting in terms of finances and business stuff. Like is I'm in business with my brother. So he's doing that whole thing. He's filed an LLC for the company we have now, but as far as for myself, I haven't. Okay. Yeah. And it's probably bad. Like, I have no idea. It's it's just another thing for me to think about. And I don't it's

Jenna Redfield 45:45

and so what we I ended up having to hire Winnie who was our lawyer and she did all of our LLC is she was on the podcast. Okay, last summer. We actually talked about that topic, which I think is a lot of people get freaked out because like a lot of people do a DPA which is doing business as that's how they can get a bank account. Okay, that's like when I first did was like, I'm doing business as Java design Johnson, then I got business or a bank account that way. So that's really easy, because that's like 100 bucks, and you have to file anything nice. So I was like, I think there's just so many things. That's like, I just wanted to hire it out. So if you ever like outsource things that you can't do will hire you. I was gonna ask, can you send me her if I'm calling you out? She was actually here yesterday on Josie Stafford's podcast, talking about contracts with weddings. Okay, and like why you should have a contract with all your vendors. Oh, wow. Yeah. Sounds like she does contracts and she does. LLC filings.

Andy Whisney 46:34

Okay. That'd be great.

Obviously, gonna start outsourcing. That's

Jenna Redfield 46:39

exactly and that's like one I hate to say it but one of the only things I've ever outsourced because I'm just I'm just I just so freaked out by the like, legal stuff. I'm just like, just do it. I'll pay you whatever, actually.

Andy Whisney 46:48

And that's my thing is like, yeah, it's such a hang up. And it's it's like, it's something I just don't want to even think about. It's like going to the dentist like everybody. Yeah, and yours. I only want in there.

Jenna Redfield 46:58

Yeah. There's certain things that like my car, like things that I like, I'm like, just do it. Like wash my car. Like I'm considering getting house cleaner. Because I'm like, I just don't want to clean it. Yeah, like I'm bad at it. And you're good at it. And I'd rather just pay you then have to like worry about it. Yeah. And it's the same with like an accountant for taxes and stuff. It's just like, I just Just do it. Yeah. And like I don't want look at it. Hey, Jenna.

Unknown Speaker 47:17

Yeah, that is Winnie recent Reese dash law. com.

Jenna Redfield 47:21

Yes, she was on yesterday. So Reese, Reese dash law. com

Andy Whisney 47:24

RECEO. Got it like the candy is that

Jenna Redfield 47:29

last name got it. Or at least her maiden name it?

Andy Whisney 47:32

That's RECE dash law. com.

Jenna Redfield 47:36

Yeah, I will put that in the show notes. She's great. And she is? Yeah, so she's great. And she's quite talented collective. Um, so so you haven't really outsourced too much?

Andy Whisney 47:46

Not as of now, my brother and I kind of getting to a point where we need to end. You know, just as we get more clients will definitely have to do that. Yeah. Yeah, not that. You know, I have a couple things. Actually, now that I think about it. I've used the website Fiverr. For things like my YouTube intro, someone did there. A guy did a couple tattoo designs for me on there. Like, it's been a really good resource. And it's super cheap. Not everything is $5, per se, but it's definitely really cheap. Good place to find. Yeah, yeah. So I've done that. Like I said, those things, and then a couple of website edits for a few clients and things. So yeah, just use that mostly.

Jenna Redfield 48:19

That's cool, because I think I struggle with, I have a control issue too. So I don't always like other people doing things that I'm like, I feel like I could do them. Sure. And I know how it wants them to be done. Yeah. And so I think that I think a lot of creatives struggle with that, because they are creative, and they want to do all the things. But it's like how much time Yeah,

Andy Whisney 48:43

there's, there's it's such a difficult conversation to have with yourself essentially, like how much? How much time can you dedicate to this? Yeah, I've had that issue with a couple clients recently with it. Where it was like a All right. I have to say no to this, because I literally don't have any time. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield 48:59

And that what happened? Well, I'm rebranding, obviously, my bit like Jenna Redfield. And so I'm like, I need a new logo. And I need a new website. So I'm like, I'm trying to do it myself. But I'm like, I think I might have to hire it out just because I'm like, I don't have time. And I want to look good. I can build a website. But I'm not like a web designer. That's not like my specialty. Sure. Yeah. So I might just have to hire someone. I mean, if it if it takes less mental stress off of you, I think it's a no brainer. Yeah. And I just have to pull the trigger, I think is that and just the money stuff is hard to because it's just like, Oh, I'm like losing money that I could, you know, have kept if I did myself that kind of right. Of course, it's like, but then Time is money. And I don't know, there's just so many things I struggle with as a wanting to do it all kind of for sure.

Andy Whisney 49:48

Yeah, there's nothing. Like being a freelancer or contractor or small business owner. There are so many things to think about that you don't think you do it, right.

Jenna Redfield 49:56

That's why you listen to podcast like, Oh, I need to, I need to think about all Yeah,

Andy Whisney 50:00

and it's I think there's something to be said about that. Because like it and obviously, you know, people who work full time jobs. I'm not taking anything away from that. But I think doing this, it really kind of wakes you up in terms of like, you have to be more disciplined. You have all this other stuff you have responsibilities for and again, I'm sure if people and who have employers are like that, too. But I know for me, it was a huge wake up call. Yeah, like, cool. You want to do this, here's all this stuff you have to keep track of and beyond the ball with. So for me personally, it's been a huge like, like I've the growth has been insane since September. So awesome. Yeah, yeah, it's been it's been really cool. And it's I don't know where I was going with this thought in general. But I think that's important. I think

Jenna Redfield 50:42

I think that you just have to know that the first year is going to be the hardest. And I think that you learn a lot about yourself and about what direction you want to go. That's very well put,

Andy Whisney 50:54

yeah, 100%

Jenna Redfield 50:55

because I think that for me, I learned, I've learned a lot in the last like three. Yeah, cuz I started down for designs in 2015. Before that, I was a wedding videographer. And I didn't know So I did that for about a year and a half. But it was like on the side. Sure. I just did it like for fun and barely charged anything. It was awful, in that way, but I was just like I learned. Now looking back now I'm like, I did think so wrong. Sure. Like, I had no systems for like getting clients and leads and all that stuff. And like now I'm like, I know all the systems. And I know, just it's just, it's crazy how much I've learned Sure, right, like, three, four years. Yeah,

Andy Whisney 51:31

that's so condensed into that.

Jenna Redfield 51:34

Because I'm actually going back to college tonight for like a alumni event. Oh, wow. So I'm like, because they're they're starting a mentorship program in the communications department. And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna go to that. But I'm like, people probably have thought of me as like, from college. And if it's people from my class that I knew, yeah, versus like, they haven't seen me in four years, or graduated. And they're like, Oh, my gosh, you're a completely different person. Right? At least I think I am. Oh,

Andy Whisney 51:59

100. Oh, my God. I was looking at so funny. Bring it up. Yeah, I was looking back at this is sort of the same. But I was looking back at like Facebook memories. Oh, yeah. And it's, I want to like shrink down into my chair. Because how embarrassing. Yeah, it's just like, Who were you? 10 years ago, let alone five?

Jenna Redfield 52:13

Yeah, that's true. I started my blog the month I graduated. Wow. Yeah, it was like, I was never a blogger in college. And so people didn't even know that side of me. I think a lot of people that, like I refrained after I knew them in college, and maybe wasn't friends with them, and I rediscovered them again, they're like Tang, what have you done? And you know, yeah, they're like, Wow, you've done like so many things that you didn't do in college. Sure. So that's, and I see the same thing with other people. I'm like, wow, you're like, completely different. Yeah. Which I think is good. Super good.

Andy Whisney 52:43

Growth is great.

Jenna Redfield 52:44

As long as it's a good thing that they're doing it. They're not like in prison. They're done. Exactly.

Andy Whisney 52:46

Yeah. As long as they're good. Yeah, exactly.

Jenna Redfield 52:49

All right. Well, we're gonna probably have to wrap this up, because I don't want to go over time. But um, thanks so much, Andy, for coming. How do we find you on the internet?

Andy Whisney 52:56

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. First of all, it's been super fun. I could talk forever. I know.

Jenna Redfield 53:00

Yeah. Look at the clock. Stop it.

Andy Whisney 53:02

Yeah. No, it's cool. So we find me on on the internet, at any likes things basically anywhere. Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, I think, too. Yeah. Andy likes things. That is the name. How did you come up with that name? Oh, that was the original URL that I bought. And like it was, I don't know where I was going with my brother. And I have this weird inside joke with that, that I can probably barely explain to anybody. Um, but yeah, I just kind of like, Yeah, exactly. Well, then my friend was like, this is really ironic, because it's a minimalism blog. But it's, you know.

Jenna Redfield 53:34

It's funny. And you'd like middle of them. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, awesome. Well, thanks so much, Andy, for coming. And I'll talk to you all next week, guys.

Thanks for listening to the Twin Cities collective podcast with Jenna Redfield. Make sure to click subscribe if you haven't already. And make sure to leave us a review on iTunes. Thanks again for you studio Americana for producing this episode, as well as Melanie Lee for designing the podcast art and thanks to Nikolai had less for the use of the song in the intro. intro. Thanks so much again, and I'll see you next time.