How To "Marie Kondo" Your Business & Life & Spark Joy in 2019!
How to Marie Kondo Your Business in 2019
Sort by category
sort each category in one go
sort categories in sliding scale of emotional attachment
Simplifying Your Life
Go through each thing you offer in your business
Ask “Does it bring you joy”
But also, does it bring you income?
Don’t save things you don’t like
You won’t want to market them, pulling teeth
Multiple side hustles
What if too many things bring you joy? You don’t have to get rid of them, but you will need to
Say thanks and pass it on (or delete it). Don’t grieve giving up services
Giving up entire businesses-i’ve done it many times
quitting jobs-knowing there is something better, thanking you for what it’s given you
multi passionate people
Consolidated my business into 1
What I offer?
write it down on a whiteboard or on a wall
everything you do (like putting clothes on bed)
do you like it?
Does it bring you joy?
Does is bring you income?
What would happen if you pivoted?
Making decisions in your business
Niching Down: focusing on things one month at a time,
Cutting out the fat (what is slowing you down)
letting go of ideas
Zone of Genius
(Examples: Ian, Kayla, etc…)
Overwhelm is real
People telling me
Figuring out your brand (stop finding all the things, focus on your brand colors & fonts, setting up templates for your content, planning ahead (plug instagram stories workshop)
How to organize your business
syncs to multiple computers
Ideas: White Board, Trello, sticky notes
Tracking which ones you like vs which you feel you have to do & scheduling & planning ahead
Can you outsource?
Leads-where are they coming from? Focus on what you are already doing, not just because someone else told you to.
Stop following the ones who make you upset. Unfollow spree on instagram & facebook friends. who do you really want to see/trust?
Same with youtube channels, tv shows, etc…
what really brings you joy?
Find the ones that not only bring you joy, but bring you people & paying customers
People in your life
removing ones who don’t bring you joy, naysayers who you feel you have to impress
Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives.
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I'm really excited. Because I'm doing a different type of episode, I'm going to be talking about business but from a very different perspective. But before I get started, I want to talk about some of our upcoming events this week. As you listen to this, we have a brunch on Saturday, we do those every month, we're going to be switching back and forth between brunches and happy hours. This month we're doing a brunch at psycho Susie's. Make sure to join our Facebook group and like our Facebook page, join our email list to get all of that information. And then we have our Instagram stories and Instagram growth or Instagram TV, excuse me. So it's our Instagram stories and Instagram TV workshop on February 20. And that's going to be all about how to use video on social media specifically on Instagram, how to edit how to create stories, how to use stories, what the stories mean, you know, and then also the new brand new IP TV option that has come out where you can do full length videos up to 10 minutes, how that works, how to edit all those videos. So that is coming up. That is our announcements. Also, obviously, we just announced our consulting services. If you want to get Instagram audit, or whatever that we have offering on our website, make sure to head to Twin Cities collective calm to learn about that. But let's get into what today's episode is about. So I was trying to think of a episode topic for this week. And I was like, You know what, I really want to talk about figuring out what you enjoy in your business. And I was just thinking about that and was like, how do I tie that into something and then it literally came to me and I said oh my gosh, Marie Kondo. And if you don't know who Marie Kondo is, she is the tidying up on Netflix. It just came out this month. And she wrote a book called The life changing Magic of Tidying Up, about four years ago, went to bestseller list. And then she made a TV show with Netflix about helping people sort their houses, when it comes to their clothing and everything thing. But I was like, You know what, it'd be cool to talk about Marie Kondo in a way that you can actually parallel it to your business. So basically, we're going to be talking about today is how to Marie Kondo your business in 2019, figuring out what sparks joy in your business, how to sort organize all the things that you're doing into something that is less chaotic, and easier and easier to focus on. And I'm going to be giving some examples that I've seen of other people, as well as examples of myself in the last year, how I've Marie Kondo and certain things. So basically, her method is you sort by category, and you do everything at once. So like when she does the clothing, she puts every item of clothing that you have on the bed, and then you pick up each thing. And you ask yourself, if it sparks joy. And now we're going to we're not going to do this with our clothing. But we're going to be doing this with every piece of our business, and doing it all in one go. So just just getting it, going through everything in one cat and then finishing that way. And then one of the things she always talks about is sorting categories and sliding scale of emotional attachment. So we'll talk about things that are less emotional, like maybe some of the services you offer, and then going all the way to the emotional like, Are there people in your life you need to cut out because they're not bringing you joy, and they're bringing your business down? So we're going to kind of be going through a lot of different categories that you really need to think about is this is this affecting your business in 2019? Is there things you need to let go of. And it's hard because a lot of it's in your head, a lot of it is things that you are holding on to maybe an idea, that's something that I think a lot of us struggle with is we have this idea, and we've had it for so long, or we have a business we've had for so long. And maybe it's time to let it go. I've had to do this many times. And I'll mention that. But what what we're going to talk about today is we're going to go through each thing your business, ask yourself, does it bring you joy, but also, and this is really important, because there might be some things in your business that bring you a lot of joy, but they don't bring you any income. And so you might want to just have them as a passion project. But you also need to keep things that do bring you income, or you'll just go down to having a hobby again, because having a business does mean bringing in money, and you need to figure out a way to do that. But also, having the way that you bring in money bring you joy. So the reason I've found that this is a really interesting thing is when you have something in your businesses, that doesn't bring you joy, that brings you a lot of money. It's like pulling teeth to try to market it, it's really, really difficult. So you got to find kind of a happy meeting, have something that really brings you joy, and can bring you money, and you don't like mind talking about it. So one of the things that I see happening a lot with the people in our group is a lot of people have many, many, many interests. There's way too many things that bring them joy. And that is why they struggle, multiple side hustlers, most businesses, we had a person asked about having a third Instagram account and our Facebook group this week. And while all of those things might bring you joy, by having too many of them, it actually removes the joy from them. Because you get so stressed and overwhelmed. You don't want to get rid of any of those things. But you're going to have to make some decisions, because you have limited time. So one of the things that Marie Kondo talks about is how you have to say thanks to the things that you've had for maybe a while and pass it on. So whether it's it's removing them from your website, stopping certain businesses that you've started, and don't grieve them, because they have helped you, and they've been there for you. But you know, maybe their season has passed, one of the things that I have done a couple times is I've actually built an entire business and then closed it, I've done this at least twice now.
And, you know, it's like you start one thing, thinking it's going to be start something, and then maybe you started another business and you like that one way more. And so then I've had to overtime, like slowly, close entire businesses that I've spent years making, and those are some of the most emotional and difficult decisions I've ever made. But But looking back, I'm so glad that I did that. And there's obviously if you don't have a business, or if you're just starting one, leaving a job or quitting a job or switching jobs, that could be just as emotional because that's your whole livelihood. And that's how you spend 95% of your time. But by staying too long, you also are kind of just just grabbing onto something that maybe doesn't spark joy for you. And there's something better out there. It's that risk of oh my gosh, should I take that next step? And, you know, do what I meant to do. There's so many multi passionate people in the group. And I think, just really digging down into what are you so passionate about that you could never give up? Somebody asked me this. I had two businesses, they said, which are the ones which are the businesses would you never give up and I said Twin Cities collective. And that was like my decision factor of like, I could never give this up. But my other business, I feel like I could so that is why I ended up closing the other business. But one of the things I ended up doing is I actually consolidated. So I brought some of the elements over from the other business, but then I just closed all the branding, the name, the website, the email, I had to have everything. And by just figuring out what what are the three things from that business I wanted to keep and bringing them over and getting rid of the rest. It has made my life so much easier. I'm focused on just one business when I used to be when I go to networking events, they'd be like, what do you do for a living? I'd be like, I have this business and this business and this business and people be like, Oh my gosh, you know, crazy person, but by consolidating and figuring out okay, well, I have this collective, which does a lot of things. I have a podcast, you know, I do consulting, but it's just it was focused, and it was niched down. So one of the things that I reckon doing is figuring out all of the things that you offer in your business and your blog, maybe where you work, write it all down on a whiteboard. I did this like two weeks ago, you guys because I was like I'm overwhelmed. I've too many things on my website. So write everything down. This is just like the clothing pile that Marie Kondo does, where you put everything out there. And you're like, Okay, well, what do I want from this huge list. And then I circled the things that made me the most money in red. And I circled the things that brought me the most joy in green. And some of them, what's the word did look kind of got a Venn diagram where they kind of overlapped. And then some of them, I didn't circle at all. And I was like, Well, why are they on this list? If I don't enjoy them, and they don't bring me money? Why am I offering them? So that was actually a really big eye opener, I was able to actually consolidate a lot of the things that I was offering into like one thing, and kind of putting them together, because I'm like, if I'm offering them separately, just add so much work. So the things you need to think about beyond you know, which are the favorites is, you know, why does it bring you joy? Why does it bring you income? What parts? What elements of that piece brings you those things? And what would happen if you pivoted, what would happen if you got rid of something in your business. One of the things I mentioned on Instagram, about a week ago was that fact that I've niche down to Instagram strategy for small business has, I've never been happier in terms of what I feel like I'm good at. I feel like, I have found my zone of genius, which I think honestly, a lot of people struggle to find for a long time. I feel like I'm cutting out the fat of the things that are slowing me down. And those were things in the past that were slowing me down video editing, I used to be a video editor. I was a freelance video editor, I went to school for video editing. And I realized, you know, it was a dream I had since I was 15 to be a video editor. But you know, that was pre Instagram that was pre social media. And, you know, I can still video edit on social media with Instagram. But I don't have to be a video editor. I remember, I was living in Los Angeles, in 2013. I was a junior in college. And I had a realization that I don't want to live in LA and I don't want to become a video editor. And it was a freeing experience because I had spent like eight years thinking I was going to be a video editor. And then I was like, know what, I'm not going to be a video editor. And it was scary. But it was also like, Oh my gosh, I have so many other options. Even though I would say video editing is one of my zones of genius. It wasn't the thing that sparked joy for me anymore. I did video editing a little bit after college. But I realized again, it hit me again, it wasn't what I enjoy doing as much as you know, networking with people or doing social media, I thought that was a bigger passion. And so by cutting out video editing, cutting out certain things, even cutting out non Instagram related social media management, that was a big one. I really just narrowed it down. And now when people think of me, they think Instagram used to be video and now it's Instagram. And that's because I focus so much on certain things that people need to remember me for. One of the biggest things I struggle with is when I find people that have like eight or nine different things they offer. I go well, how am I supposed remember what you do? You know, there's people that have been on this podcast that I'm like they are a Facebook strategist, or they are a Pinterest strategist, or they are, you know, a yoga teacher, you know, having a niche, and something that people come straight of mind like that's that person. One of the things I've been dealing with a lot lately is brand designers. There's not that many in the Twin Cities. So like, they come straight mind, but there's a million graphic designers out there. But you know, there's not a lot of brand designers. So for me having a nation that is so helpful, because I get a lot of recommendations. Are people asking for recommendations on brand designers. So by nearing down in Nisha your business to what exactly you enjoy exactly what sparks joy, you know, and what is in your zone of genius. I'll give some examples. The first episode, This podcast was my friend Kayla. She used to be like a business strategist. And I could tell she didn't really love it. And then when she, you know, she sat down and thought about and she said, What do I really enjoy? And it was writing. And she's like, Well, why don't I just just write. And so she transitioned her business into copywriting. And now she's so successful at it, and she loves it. And she spends all of her day writing. And you know, so that's her zone of genius. It's what will make her money. She's, you know, booked out for a few months in advance. You know, it's things like that, even here at the podcast, in had people asking for video. And so he offered that. But then he realized over time that that wasn't his zone of genius zone of genius was in podcast producing, so he got rid of the video. So there's just so many examples of so many people that have been on this podcast, and that are part of the Twin Cities collective that have stories of realizing what they're really good at, and what they need to do for their business. Because overwhelm is real. One of the things that I struggle with is people telling me what they want, from twins, this collective, and me assuming that everyone else wants it to that is probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last year is to listen. But also, keep in mind the fact that that might just be that one person's thought. I've actually told this to people as I'm meeting with them, and they go, and then they start, you know, giving me almost like unsolicited advice. And they go, Oh, my gosh, I'm doing it right now, you know, because I feel like I am open to ideas and to. But sometimes they're too narrow, and they're too much for that one person. So I think one of the lessons that I have learned is that you need to be figuring out what are the things that you like that you think a lot of people will also like, not just one person, not just your mom, not just your friend, not just your spouse, something that really really digs to the core of who you are letting go of those ideas that other people told you you have to do. This has happened to us influences collective, one of the ways I do things is trial and error, I try something out, I have no idea if it's going to work. And a lot of the times it does. And a lot of times it doesn't, for example, our membership Group, a lot of people told me Oh, that's such an easy way to do it, you can get a lot of people signed up, you know, easy money. And I was like, sure that sounds great, you know, dream. So such easy money. But what I realized is oh my gosh, I don't like this at all, I don't like having to come up with things every month, a group that's paying me already, to come up with new things for them to do, I would rather just have one event and sell tickets for it and that and so that's why, you know, our membership has kind of changed to more of a workshop membership. Because I'm like, I would rather have a membership where you would know in advance what the thing is. And it's a time sensitive, you know, membership. One of the things that I talked about at my workshop, and we just talked about it at the Instagram growth workshop, if you'd miss the workshop, we have it available to purchase on our website, just go to online workshops and click on Instagram growth, you can actually purchase it for the same price as the as the event. But what I talked about in that was figuring out what your brand is what your story is, as well as your actual visuals.
Getting your template set up on Canada, planning out ahead of your content on Instagram. And we'll talk more about that also at our workshop for Instagram stories. But honestly, like, it's been so great to figure out okay, well, what are the things that was this collective offers that I enjoy, that other people enjoy? That is just it just feels right? It feels like it's in my zone of genius. It's something that sparks joy in other people. It's taken me two and a half years to kind of get to a point where I'm like, Okay, I think I know what people like, I think I know what I like. And I think a lot of people are afraid to try new things to fail to do the trial and error. But really, that's how you learn, it could take off, it could not take off. And then you know, it might be a little bit of money and time wasted. But at least you don't spend like 10 years trying to build something that's not going to work. So now we're moving into a section where I'm going to be talking a little bit more about when it comes to Marie Kondo. Once you figure it out kind of what sparks joy, and you've gotten rid of the things that you've gotten rid of. Now, how do you organize that? So I'm actually going to go through it kinda like she does in categories. So why one of the things that a lot of people struggle with is, okay, you have so many files on your computer, just like you have files at home that you've printed out, how do you organize those, I'll kind of go through how I organize it. I use Google Drive, to organize all of my files. And I sort them by category, whether it's products, I sell the website, the podcast, courses, events. And basically what I do is within those, I sort them by month, I sort them by project, I sort them by event. And then I put all of the information in there every document as text I have, every for the podcast I have.
I have it sorted by month, and then by person. And then I have all the graphics, the actual podcast itself, the video, everything that you need for when the podcast goes out, and then I send it to all the people on the podcast. For all of the events, I have all the graphics I've made. And I just I just started it by category. And it's it makes it so much easier. I recommend if you haven't gone through your computer in a while, just do it, throw things away, get rid of stuff that is old, that doesn't make any sense anymore. And you'll be able to find things a lot faster. I like Google Drive, because I have two different computers. So I can kind of sync them and find all the things I need. They have a new thing called the Google stream, which allows you to have it so it's not always downloaded, and it saves you a lot of space on your computer. You can also use things like Dropbox, I found Google Drive is a lot easier to use because it's cheaper. And it syncs really well with both my computers and I can turn it off. Another thing I have to organize a lot is my canvas templates, I use them every single day. And I use them for the podcast, I use them for our events, I use them for blog posts, what I've done is I've actually made it so that I have every single folder is sorted by category, I have all of my different events I've ever done uploaded into the photos. I also like for all the Pinterest graphics I've made, what I do is I actually have just just them all in one document, you can have up to 30 pictures on canvas. So I just have them all there. So I can find them. And I sorted them in terms of the date that I put them out. So it's super easy for me to find them when I need them, and edit them if I need to. So that's kind of how I organize all my files. I think that it's kind of depending on the person. But that's an easy way to just kind of feel like you got some organization in your business. Just today, if you just have time to go through some of that. Some other things that I have is my inbox on my email. This is something I wanted to talk about. Because honestly, it's been rough. I am not a fan of emailing, and I will be the first to admit I'm not the fastest at responding. I see it and I'm like, Okay, I gotta get back to that person. And then it takes me like a week, just because I have like 80 other things that I have to do. And it's like, who do I prioritize? That's one of the biggest struggles I have is who comes first? You know, is it the pressing things? Is it the things that are, you know, all of that is so it's so hard. But there's a few apps that I use to kind of keep control of my inbox. The first is I use unroll me, if you've never used unroll me. You're welcome. It is a great app that allows you to roll up your spam email. A lot of people are subscribed to email lists, and I'm subscribed to way too many. But if one comes into my inbox, I just go to the unroll me app, and I add it to my roll up for the week. So basically, what it does is it combines all of your emails into one. So if you get like 30 subscribed emails in a day, it pops into your inbox and then it pops right out. And then at the end of the day of the will be sent to you in one long email that has all of your emails combined. It's like the best thing I've ever found for emailing and keeping my email. Great and and organized. Another one I use is called streak as TREAK. com. It's a free plugin for Gmail that allows me to have a CRM in my inbox. This is another great way to kind of keep track of people. I also use the Gmail labels where I labeled things and put them into folders. This has been super helpful as well, you can also create filters. So if an email does come in from someone it automatically is labeled. So you can you know, archive it or whatever you want. My goal always is Inbox Zero. But I usually have about 100 emails in my inbox at all times. And I did go to Inbox Zero a couple of weeks ago. And then I remember a week later I was at 100. Again, I was like Are you serious? I'm so and that's even after going through it. But one of the ways that I really really, really think about lot of people could benefit from and I mentioned this on the story again this week is using like a CRM, an actual CRM, I use something called dub Sato. And it allows me to send invoices, proposals, scheduling, it does everything for me. And it's a really, really easy system to use for sending workflows. I use it for all client based projects, even the podcast when people sign up for the podcast, I send them a form to fill out the has their headshot information, bio everything. So just keeping a little bit more organized in my inbox keeps me a little bit more sane, and allows me to focus on my business and using things like the sotto and unroll me and streak or just easy ways to get kind of a handle on the overwhelm of all of the things coming at me. Another thing that you need to organize is your ideas. This is something I've struggled with because I keep a lot of them in my head. But one of the things I recently got was a whiteboard. It's kind of like a little easel thing that I just carry around. And I can write on there. And it's a way for me to just kind of get everything out there. There's other ways digitally you can do Trello is the other one. I use Asana as another option air table, there's a bunch of different apps that are kind of like lyst. Making apps. Evernote is another one. I prefer Trello because I really like lists. And I like the fact that you can duplicate them. It's easy to look at. So I end up using Trello when I feel super overwhelmed and I have like 800 things to do this the last two weeks, for some reason have been super crazy. Like I feel like I've always behind.
And so I've really been trying to like figure out okay, how do I how do I get everything done when it's just me. So just writing things down is so so valuable and kind of organizing your thoughts. Even when I was writing out this podcast interview or interview of one person. When I was writing out this podcast topic today, I actually wrote out an outline because I was like, I'm going to be all over the place with what I want to talk about when it comes to Murray con. So having you know, ideas written out having an outline two things is so so valuable. Okay, so the next category is to figure out is social media. One of the things that I've talked to with some of my consulting clients is okay, so what social media are you using? Which ones do you like to use? And which ones do you feel like you have to do? And can you outsource those? So, for example, a lot of people have stopped using Twitter, I've just found that that's true for business, a lot of people don't use anymore. So they like focus on Instagram, or they focus on Pinterest, just focusing on building one is so much easier than focusing on building all, you know, eight or whatever, how many social media networks that are out there. But one of the best ways to figure out is where do you leads come from? Do they come from Instagram? Do they come from email marketing, focus on what you're already doing and getting really good at that? Not just because someone else told you to. I, for the longest time never thought email marketing was a good thing until I saw that a lot of people actually did stuff from our email, then I was like, Okay, I gotta focus on that. So for the last six months, I've really, really focused on sending at least one email a week, and I've been actually really good at that. Because I know that that gets results. I might not enjoy it as much as Instagram, but I know it gets results. So you have to really focus on Okay, where are people actually coming from? Okay, so this is one, it's kind of more on the emotional side. People that you follow on social media. This is something you can Marie Kondo as well or do the camara method with, stop following the people that make you upset. This is like something I want to say like, again, stop following people that make you upset if you're on Instagram. And there's a certain few certain accounts that just make you feel bad about yourself, whether they're supermodels that make you feel bad about your body, or families that make you feel like yours is super unorganized, or relationships that make you wish that you were in you know, with that person. Stop following those people. It's easy way to just click unfollow, you don't have to follow them. Obviously, if your friend in that you don't want them to know that you're following them to meet them. There's lots of ways to do it. I feel the same way about friends on Facebook, I go through at least once a year and unfriend a lot of people that I haven't talked to people that I feel like are not adding any value to my life. Maybe they're really, really old friends in high school who literally couldn't care less. Who do you really want to see? And who do you want seeing your stuff, because if you post on Facebook, you will be seen by a lot of people. And you want to make sure that it's people that you want in your life. Also, you know, I've I've gone through Facebook groups and remove myself from them just because they're, they're taking up too much of my time or I'm not getting anything out of them. Maybe they don't spark joy, or also they don't bring me any leads or any income. This is the same with content you consume, whether it's a YouTube channel, or a TV show. If it's making you sad, or it's making you depressed, or it's making you jealous, stop watching it, you know, only take in things that that spark joy for you. What really brings joy, is it a book that you read, is it you know, events that you like to go to one of the things I I'm trying to figure out with myself is networking events, you know, don't go to the ones that don't bring you joy, if you feel like you have to go to them. And you're like, Oh, I hate going to this one, don't go to it, you're not going to bring out anything positive when you go or hire someone else to go and talk about you. Like there's so many different things you can do. to not feel like you're wasting your time wasting your energy, wasting your joy and your interest in things. Obviously, everyone has passions in life. And I think that by focusing on the ones that you're really, really like, that's the best way to do it. Okay, the last one is the people in your life. And I think that this is probably the hardest, and that's why I kept it till the end. And I think that there's a lot of people that struggle with this. And that's removing, actually removing people from your life, not just on social media, but actually not hanging out with them not texting them anymore. You know, this could be a relationship, you know, if it romantic relationship, this could be a friend, this could even be a family member who maybe you feel like is really toxic. And you know, is a naysayer about your business. You feel like you have to impress all the time. I love the quote, people come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. I know a lot of people that have come in and out of my life where I it's fine with me that they're not in my life anymore. But I'm also not like upset at them. This happens to me probably more than anything where it's just kind of like, well, at one point in my life, we were really close. And we had a lot in common. But we've really drifted over the years. And I think that's okay, I really do, I think it's fine. As long as you are replacing them with someone else, and you're not just losing all of your friends. If you find someone who's I hate to say it better or better suited for you, it's okay. You know, like, I don't think that person will be offended because they probably feel the same way. You know, maybe they found more people in their life that they feel I feel like they connect with I feel like I have better friends now than I ever have in high school or college, the people I was friends with in both of those. While I really liked them, I feel like it was just because they were around it was because they were the ones in the area that maybe had the most common with me. And I feel like once I became a real adult out of college, I could find the real people that I actually wanted to hang out with, that didn't have to go to my school, they didn't have to live in the same city as me. I met them online or I met them at a networking event. And now and they might not even be the same age as me, a lot of my friends are maybe five to 10 years older than me. You know, it's it's it's like you don't have to have friends that you just hung out with in college in high school that you feel like, Oh gosh, I don't want to hang out with these people anymore. They don't understand me now. You don't have to see him once a year, you know, see him at reunions, you don't have to stick with the same people. Sorry, this is getting like a no tangent. But basically, if they don't spark joy for you, don't waste you're time with them. And that's what everything in your business. Just kind of, you know enclose. Make sure that what you're focused on is what you want. Because that's why you wanted to have your own business. You want to make sure that what you're doing is what you think you're good at, as well as what brings you joy, and hopefully what makes you money. So that's kind of my message. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. Again, we have a few we have brunch coming up, as well as our workshop. We also have consulting services. If you need one on one help for me, I can help you set up your website, I can help you set up your Instagram. I'm hoping that in this year, we'll be doing smart behind the scenes videos as well. So you can kind of see what I do on a weekly basis. That's something I'm hoping to start soon. So thank you guys so much for listening to the podcast. Make sure to tell your friends to join the Facebook group if they have it. Yeah, well I hope you guys have an awesome week and I'll talk to you next week. Bye.
Thanks for listening to the Twin Cities collective podcast with Jenna Redfield. Creative click subscribe if you haven't already, and make sure to leave us a review on iTunes. Thanks again for Ian at Studio Americana for producing this episode as well as Melanie Lea for designing the podcast art and thanks to Nikolai had less for the use of the song in the intros outros. Thanks so much again and I'll see you next time.