Overcoming Fears Around Selling & Sales & Changing Limiting beliefs , Selling isn't telling & using stories to serve your audience
Three-time Bestselling Author, Award winning Entrepreneur and Sales Expert-- Ursula Mentjes--will transform the way you think about selling so you can reach your goals with less anxiety and less effort! The Founder of Sales Coach Now as well as an inspirational speaker, author of Selling with Intention, Selling with Synchronicity, One Great Goal and The Belief Zone– Ursula specializes in Neuro-Linguistic Programming to help clients double and triple their sales FAST.
Honing her skills at an international technical training company, where she began her career in 1996, Ursula increased sales by 90% in just one year! In 2001, when the company’s annual run was in the tens of millions, Ursula advanced to the position of President at just 27 years old. Sales guru Brian Tracy endorsed Selling with Intention saying, “This powerful, practical book shows you how to connect with customers by fully understanding the sales process from the inside out. It really works!” Selling with Synchronicity and One Great Goal were also winners of the Beverly Hills Book Awards in the categories of sales and business motivation—and Selling with Intention was a finalist. Selling with Intention also received the International Book Award sponsored by USA Book News and Selling with Synchronicity was a finalist. Ursula’s most recent book, The Belief Zone, received two Beverly Hills Book Awards. Her Podcast, Double Your Sales NOW, has received all 5-star reviews, is being downloaded in more than 55 countries and is experiencing double-digit growth.
Ursula also serves as Past Statewide Chairperson of the NAWBO-CA Education Fund and Past President of NAWBO-CA. Ursula is the recipient of the SBA’s Women in Business Champion and is a recipient of the Willow Tree Extraordinary Example and Extraordinary Entrepreneur Awards, the NAWBO-IE ANITA Award, chosen as PDP’s Extraordinary Speaker, PDP’s Business Woman of the Year, Spirit of the Entrepreneur Awards Finalist and is the recipient of the Lifetime Achievement Award from the President of the United States of America.
She has shared the stage with bestselling author Loral Langemeier, Les Brown, Tom Antion, Lisa Nichols, Giuliana Rancic and many others! Her clients include Aflac, Ebenezer, Keller Williams, Fairview Hospitals, New York Life, Paychex and more! She holds a B.A. in Psychology and Communication, an M.S. in Counseling Psychology and is an NLP Certified Coach through the NLP Institute of California.
Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives.
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I'm your host Jenna Redfield, and to day I have a very special guest, Ursula manches. She is a four time best selling author, award winning entrepreneur and sales expert. She will transform the way you think about selling so you can reach your goals with less anxiety and less effort. She's the founder of sales coach now as well as an inspirational speaker, author of selling with intention selling with synchronicity, one great goal and the belief zone. And Ursula specializes in neuro linguistic programming to help clients double and triple their sales fast. Thank you for being here us a lot.
Ursula Mentjes 1:15
Yeah. Thank you, Jen. I'm excited to be here too.
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 1:17
And you actually have a podcast as well.
Ursula Mentjes 1:20
Yes. Double your sales now. Yeah,
I can't wait to have you on it. Yeah, for sure.
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 1:24
And how long have you been doing that?
Ursula Mentjes 1:26
But a year and a half now. Okay. Yeah. So not a long time. And I I totally resisted that. And then a friend of mine just kept saying you need to do it. You need to do it. Yeah, I did it. It's been a lot of
Yeah, for sure. It's definitely a good way to get people to know you a little bit better. Yes. You know, how you talk. And you know, there's books, but then there's also like your voice? Who are you? Right? Yeah. And so let's talk a little bit about like your background. So how did you get into what you're doing now?
Yeah, well, I don't, I don't know anyone that's ever said teach or sales is like a career that they chose. It's kind of a career that finds people. And sadly, I think we're in a time where sales is a form of word. And people don't like selling and know not to call themselves a salesperson and entrepreneurs, I want to say their salespeople. So it's very interesting. So I look back on my journey. I grew up on a farm in southern Minnesota, I wanted to stay on the farm forever thought that was my path. And my parents said go to college and get a good job. Because the farm might not be here forever. So I did. And I found the closest little school I could to the farm, which was St. Olaf College. To all my always out there
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 2:23
my brothers and only
Ursula Mentjes 2:24
Okay, yeah, that's great school, and I majored in psychology in communication at this great liberal arts degree. And I got out and I'm like, What am I going to do? And I thought, I want to go to law school, but I needed money to pay for it. And I worked in the Career Development Center, and I took all those tests and said, I'd be great in sales and marketing. And I really didn't know what that meant. And then the long and short was I ended up meeting someone who told me to get into outside sales, it'd be a great way to pay for law school. So I had moved to Colorado By that time, and ended up working for an international computer training and consulting company and sales. first day on the job. They taught me how to sell Microsoft Certified training. It was like alphabet soup to me. And they gave me a sales script. And I thought to myself, This is the worst job I could have ever asked for. My job was to make 100 count them cold calls every single day, put it on a tick sheet before I could go home. Now, the flip side of that is there's no better way to learn how to sell and to make cold calls. Right. So I just I dived into it. I started reading all the sales books like Brian Tracy's psychology of selling Jeffrey Gitomer, the sales Bible, I read Tom Hopkins to stay motivated all the old school stuff. And although it was good, and it was helpful, it still felt off to me. Like I still felt very robotic and very scripted. And so what about that time, I also found a book called The power of intention by the late Dr. Wayne Dyer. And I read that book and I thought, you know, what, if I started to be intentional in the sales process, what if instead of making 100 cold calls and a tick sheet every day like that being my goal, what if instead, I started make 25, high quality calls to get three appointments or four appointments. And guess what it worked, management team didn't really appreciate it. They're like your jobs. 100 cold calls everyday put on tick sheet headed in. But my sales started to skyrocket. And the long and short of is I went from being an outside salesperson, then I opened an office in Colorado Springs, when I was 24 years old and had this great experience. They transferred me to Southern California to kind of branch that was losing a lot of money to turn around. And we took that branch from losing hundreds of thousands a month to about $3 million a month in sales every month, which was 10 times the national average with five sales people. So I had this great ride. And then when I was 27, they actually named me president of the company. So it's just this incredible journey. And I share that with you and I say look, what I did I share with you because if I can figure out how to sell anyone can and I just got this passion because I saw what I could do for sales professionals. So we sold that company. I went out on my own I was highly unemployable. And then I started my first coaching company, which eventually morphed into sales coach now the company I have today.
Yeah, wow, that's quite a stir. I mean, I'm 27 now. So like, I'm like trying to figure out Wow, that's like, you know, lot by 27 it you know,
it didn't have its downsides. I definitely like corporate America was terrible for my health. And so when I left, I also you know, I started my own company. And I also started on my health journey, and really my healing journey, and finding that I don't really like the word balance. I wanted to be able to grow other seven figure companies, but be healthy. So that's my new thing and have a family and have a life that I really loved. And so that's, that's been the
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 5:23
Ursula Mentjes 5:24
So you now teach sales for the most part that's kind of and coach and you do a lot of workshops. So what what kind of does your business look like now? Like, what is it? That's a great question. So today, we offer a two day sales camp course, that's where most of our entrepreneurial clients start with us. And some sales professionals come to that training as well, or their company sends them. So that's our public course. And we offer those here and in San Diego, and then other private ones throughout the country. And then from there, people can decide it's kind of like dating, like becomes sales camp. And they decide, yeah, I want to do more coaching with Ursula and Rebecca and other people on my team. And then I also have the corporate side of my business, I do a lot of paid keynote speaker getting sales seminars, private training, out in the corporate world, which is also fun. I love the mix of it. Yeah, it keeps me definitely growing. And on my toes,
I think I mean, I do a lot of the same where I do the coaching. And then I do like that, you know, the workshops, and all of that, too, which I think it's so fun to have that mix, what what would you say is your favorite part?
Oh, my god, it depends on the day, right? Like I love all of it. So on the days when I'm in the office doing coaching, so I only coach on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I know, that's what I'm going to be doing unless I have a different event. And so then I'm very focused, and I get to connect with my clients and do belief breakthroughs and really dig in and help them take quantum leap. So that's fine. And then I love to be out. Like there's days like today when I get to come out, or when I'm out at a corporate site. So it just depends. I love all of it. But if I had to do the same thing every day, I would no longer love it. Yeah,
I agree. I know. And that's been hard for me to figure out like the balance of what which, you know, how much do you do this? And how much do you do that? How have you figured like, I like the idea that you do it only Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm planning on switching my schedule, did something like that? How has like the time management piece? Yeah, well,
in my book selling with intention, I have a chapter called your intentional schedule. And so we always share with our clients to reverse engineer their schedule based on their sales goal and what they want to create that year. So it's kind of a reverse engineering process. But it's also based on lifestyle, like, I'm really good in the morning. And I know that about myself. So I love to do all my coaching before noon, if I can, and then work on other projects. After that Fridays, I love to keep open, depending on what's going on Mondays are typically Office admin and writing days. And then Wednesdays are typically podcast or event days. And then of course, we have sales camps on Thursdays and Fridays, on certain days. And other days, I'll be out, you know, speaking and doing other things, depending what's going on.
Yeah, that's, I love that you have that organized because I feel like that's something I need to work on for myself. So let's talk a little bit about like, sales in 2019. Like so, like social media and all that has really changed how we find people how we like, you know, look at reviews, you know, before you make a purchase how
has like this time in like the world change sales overall. You know, it's interesting, Jenna, I think it's, it's changed and it stayed the same and a lot of ways. So I think it's easier to access information about people, it's easier to find people then I find people are also trying to hide themselves from corporations, they're trying harder to harder to like not be found. But I think that you know, it's it's kind of opened up this overfamiliarity, I was just talking with somebody about that where it can feel violating if someone texts you and you don't you like don't know them very well, or they private messaged you on Facebook, you're like I we don't have that kind of relationship, or I don't expect it. But then in other like I know a lot of our clients who are in direct sales, for example, they love direct messaging, like almost all their communication is Facebook, or texting. And then my corporate clients, almost all their communication is messaging through LinkedIn, email, or phone. So it's, I think we're we're used, like, depending on what sector we're in, we're using social media for different reasons. I also find like, in my own industry, in the training industry, that we've kind of swung back to people really wanting deeper connection. So I started with my friends. She's been in the training industry for a long time, we were chatting yesterday, and we were talking about how back in the day, so like 10 years ago, all of us we had big 600 person events, it was like this big, pitch fast. It was this big sales thing. And you know, we marketed on social media. And now people don't want that. We're finding that people want to be in smaller rooms, they want to get to know other people, they want to build relationships, co working places are huge, right? You know that. And so it's like this. While we've become more exposed, I feel like we want more connection. And also cold calling. I feel like it's a dead like people think that doesn't work anymore. And when you say cold calling, it sounds terrible, right? Like, what does that even mean? Right? But actually picking up the phone and calling someone is a great way to connect, whether it's a call or a warm call. And I always joke at sales camp, I always say, you know, remember the last time your phone rang and you didn't wasn't you're like, Hey, hello, like I'm answering the phone. Because we we don't like we think we get a lot of calls, but we really don't. So picking up the phone and having a warm connection with somebody is really the next step. And most people don't want to pick up the phone.
Yeah, I actually posted I think on LinkedIn about this, I have always been afraid of talking on the phone. And my first job out of college was one of those jobs where you call people all day. For me it was the worst. And I was like I have to like get online because that we didn't even use computers. This was in 2014. And we didn't even use computers, I was so upset. I was like, I was like I literally spent my entire college on the computer. You know, that was my like domain. Yeah, I got a job where it was only it was literally reading off of a sheet. That's terrible people it was it was for market research purposes. But it was just, it was like, Okay, this isn't what I signed up for, I need to go on the internet, you know. So that was why I left that job. But I learned a lot about myself is, you know, I think that, for me, if the person is expecting me a call, then I think I more comfortable with it. If it's just out of the blue, like most of these people that we were calling, it was a lot harder to get them to talk to me. So can we talk a little bit about the sales process of like, I think maybe people don't even know what a cold lead is a warm lead? What does that even mean when it comes to marketing and then transitioning into that sale?
Yeah, so a cold call would simply mean someone you've never spoken to before. They don't know you a lot of our clients who are calling and corporations like to make cold calls, because it's a great way to get in. And we help them structure a script. So they have something free to offer them. Maybe it's a lunch and learn maybe it's a free book, maybe it's something to get open up that connection and then ask for an appointment. A warm lead would be someone that you've met through networking or referral, someone that already knows you. Yeah. And in both cases, though, statistically, even a warm lead, you need to follow up five or more times. Sometimes less than that when you have sales training, and you know what to say. But it does take a lot of follow up to close sales. And I think most people feel like scared to do it or they don't want to be you know, they don't want people think they're pushy or too salesy is a lot of that. And so, from going from marketing on social media, for example, let's say you're you're maybe doing a Facebook Live, and you're talking about your upcoming event, and you're super excited about right. And then you know, people at the bottom, they're saying, Yeah, that sounds great. Okay, and then you put your link, and you're like, oh, here's how you register. Now, they may or may not go there, right? They may some, that first step might just be branding for that event, like people knowing about it, yeah. But then you could go down and look at all the people who were on your Facebook Live and go, Hey, I'm going to pry it, you know, I'm going to reach out, I have her email address, or I'm going to call her to set up a time to talk about coming to the event. So often people start selling too soon in the process, especially if you're charging for something like I would recommend reaching out to people, especially if you have an event coming up and saying, hey, Shelly, like, I'd love to chat with you more, let's set up a time to talk about you know, coming to the event, and how it could serve you. Here's what I'm available. So offering a separate time to have a conversation rather than just calling and trying to sell because you'll hit a block then. That way, Shelly is already said, Yeah, I'm interested in talking to you Let's set up a, then you've reserved time outside of this conversation. So then Shelley's ready to have the conversation, then you're talking to Shelly Shelly wants to come to the event. And only that, but she has five friends who want to come with her. So then by expanding that conversation, it's much more likely you'll develop a relationship, she's gonna want to come to your event, she's got people she can connect with and it, it just becomes a lot more authentic. But it's really coming from that place of serving and being able to say, Shelly, maybe this event is a fit for you. Maybe it's not, I'd love to have the conversation and see how we can serve you serving authentically just solving people's problems. That's what selling is. Yeah.
And I think that that is what more and more people have sort of realized over time. And I do think that it's it has become a better way to do it, I think. Yeah. And when you do think of it as relationship building, right, I was talking about this yesterday, networking, I prefer the term relationship building to networking, because I feel like you have when you have a network, you have a group of relationships, basically. So I feel like for me, I call it I was told, like, you have to have your elevator pitch and you have to like walk up to someone. And I always thought it was I was just asking for stuff. Like I always thought that that's what networking was, was me just asking someone for stuff. Yeah, you know, whether it's an informational interview or whatever, what I didn't realize was half of networking isn't giving to them. And I think that they don't talk about that enough in schools, not enough in like their training is you have to provide them value in order to get value back. And I feel like that is it's a symbiotic relationship. And I think that's what sales is, is, I think that's the thing people are scared of when it comes to sales is I'm just selling them this thing. But what I've heard so many times on different podcasts is if you're not telling them about what you offer, you're doing a disservice to them. Absolutely. What are your thoughts on like that? That idea? mindset?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, if so, I agree with you on networking, as well, like showing up when you meet someone, what can you give them an offer? How can you support them first, you don't want to show up to receive because yeah, it can happen show Deb and I guarantee it'll come back to you might not come acting from that person, but it'll come back somewhere else. Second, just the whole mindset of, you know, relationship building, and connecting with people and really serving them is powerful. Yeah. And we live in a time where, you know, news is coming at us a million miles an hour, like you get on Instagram or something like just like you're inundated with messages. But when was the last time you stop like this, like we're having a conversation on paga actually looking at Yeah, you know, and having a real conversation. And I know, there's going to be ways we're going to work together, I already know that we're gonna support each other and refer each other and but I wanted to come out. And when you said let's meet, I'm like, let's do it. Right. So it's about taking that extra step, whether it's a warm relationship warm, or I mean, in my case, it was cold calling you reached out to me. You didn't know me, right? You saw my face. But you were willing to take that next step and bring me on the podcast. Well, that's, that's building that relationship, which is going to lead to more opportunities for you. Yes, I'm yeah, my show, right. That's a great example of how it unfolds. So I just encourage people do you know, get in front of more people? Have the meetings have the coffees? Yeah. And not from a perspective of what am I going to get? But what can I give today? Knowing that I know it's going to come back. And I'm not worried about that part because we live in a prosperous universe. Yeah.
So one of the things I always struggled with with sales was the follow up and make I always thought I was being annoying. If I followed up too many times. What are your thoughts on that? You're the only one.
I think that's a number. That's the number one limiting belief we hear is like, I don't want to be perceived as being pushy, or salesy, especially ladies, especially women, we are like, I'm just here to help. Like, if they want what I have, they'll call me. No, they won't call you back. And the day they do the day, your prospect who you just met at that networking meeting, calls you on the way home and says here's my credit card number, go buy a lotto ticket, that's just normal. And so unfortunately, as I said earlier, we have to follow up five or more times. Now, to shorten that sales cycle, the faster you can get an appointment, and have a great conversation either over the phone or resume or in person, the faster that's going to move along. And you could discover either their an ideal prospect, and you can help them or I bet you can refer them to someone else. And Jenna, that's an easy thing for all of us to say, Jenna, if I can help you awesome. If I can't, I'd love to be able to refer people to you. Let's figure that out. Yeah, right. And then who knows? What's going to come from that? Because who would say no to that?
Yeah, for sure. No one would?
Yeah. And so that's a simple thing you can say, to get an appointment? I mean, in your case, you have the pockets, you have a lot going on. A lot of you have a huge network, I can just feel it. So there's a lot of value in people meeting with you whether or not they became a client, for sure.
And I, it's I've actually get a lot of people asking me to meet. And it's hard for me to say no, because I want to meet everyone. But there are certain times where I'm like, I don't get any value out of this. I just know I won't. Yeah. And so it's like it has to be somewhat The only people I say yes to are people who I feel like are at my level or greater.
It's okay to say no. Yeah. And I i'm not saying that's such a good point. Like there are people who are just meeting to me, but you know, have some qualifications. I really take coffee meetings. I want to sit down and talk about business or do business together. Yes. So definitely qualify.
Yeah. And that's, that's something that we I actually was on one of my questions is what is a qualified lead? Because I feel like there are good like, like, okay, for example, somebody always tells me build your email list. And I'm like, but what if my email list is filled with people that aren't actually going to buy from me? Is it the numbers? Or is it the quality of the emails? And so then I'm always like, getting rid of people that don't open my emails, I'm like, Well, why would I keep sending them emails? If they're obviously not a qualified lead for me be coming to one of our events, maybe if they moved out of town, I just get rid of them from my email list. Cuz I'm like, I only work with Minnesota based businesses. So for me, it's like qualifying The lead is so important. And I think it's hard for people to like know, who's a good lead and who's not?
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 18:48
I think you already do, though.
Ursula Mentjes 18:50
Yeah. So I do but like other other No, yeah.
But I think you just gave a great example of a qualified lead fits the criteria, right? So an easy way to think it. And this is what we share with our clients is to think about your favorite client, who is your favorite client, you know, what are their top five attributes, you know, in our business, it's that they're coachable, they're motivated, they want to get to the next level, they already have a six figure business or higher, they have a team member, they want to grow, like all of those things. And we, and they have a certain energy about them, we just know, um, when we see them, but we also have a list and we've done the work. And so for your listeners, like, you know, make it like, think of your favorite client make a list of their top five attributes or their top 10 attributes, and like really pay attention to what makes them unique. Yeah, no more than we think we do. Now, you're really stuck with that you're like, I'm not even sure I don't have a favorite client yet. Think about the top five attributes of a prospect you don't want to work with someone you would want to fire never follow through. Because those top five, it could be things like, they're not, you know, my business, like they're not coachable. They don't really want to get to the next level, they have a lot of limiting beliefs. They don't think they can get there. You know, they don't want it bad enough, like two things like that. So when I flip it around, it's clear who those what those top five attributes are.
Yeah, exactly. saying, Yeah, cuz I've definitely learned a lot. I've done a bunch of different online businesses. One of my businesses was I was a video editor. Oh, freelance. I went to school, for video. So like, that's my background. And I definitely learned type a people who don't who treat me like crap as an editor. Were not my ideal clients. There you go. So like, that was something I learned very quickly was, as an editor, you can't really read the mind of your person. And they expected me to. And I was like, Well, I'm doing what I think would look good. But if it's not your vision, I can't. I can't like, predict that. Yeah, you know, you need to give me as much information as you can for me to make the video what you want it to be. So what's the opposite of that? What was like, there's someone who has like, exactly a strong vision and can explain it to me. Well, there you
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 20:44
got it. So that Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Ursula Mentjes 20:46
So that was something that I learned. And so then I I don't think I ever worked with her again. But it was just, I learned that about myself. And then it's, then it's how you write that copy on your website, you know, yeah, attracting the right, maybe clients, because I think that's something that's, I thought we had a copywriter on a couple, like two months ago, and I've been working with her actually, because that is something I'm strongly working on is my copywriting skills, because that's what's going to incur, you know, find those words that connect with people, the emotions, I think that sales is emotions as well, I mean, you know, there's the impulse buys, but there's also so how does motion tie into sales? Well, most of us buy based on an emotional feeling, it's going to make me feel better, because my sales are going to grow, it's going to make me feel better, because my marketing is going to be better, or I'm going to have my podcast out there. And then we justify it with logic. So then we say, it's good, I'm going to feel better, and you know, the return on investment tend to be great. So let me start to justify. So how we how it makes us feel is critical, because that's why we buy and so when we have a feeling like I know this consultant probably know is gonna make me feel better. And we and by the way that typically comes from the confidence in the salesperson. So if you're really confident what you're selling, that's what I'm picking up on. That's what I'm buying, because your confidence makes me feel good. Like, Oh, I know, she can solve my problem. That's really good. Or even thought of that. Because I feel like I, I sometimes struggle with the confidence and maybe that's why it's harder to sell.
Yeah, hashtag confidence sells. Yeah. So and that's a really, I mean, I'm sure all of us have struggled with confidence in many different ways. So when on those days, when I'm really struggling with confidence, or in the past, when I would, I would think about that one client, the one client that loves you loves what you do, you blew their results out of the water, whatever, that can bring that feeling of competence back. And in an NLP Neuro Linguistic program. We talked about that as a state. So you can do a state change anytime. So pulling that feeling of confidence before you get on the phone. Think about that client bringing that feeling competence come from that space, and you're much more likely to happen, it
makes so much sense. We're going to take a really quick break for an ad and we'll be right back with podcast.
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Alright, we're back with the podcast back with Ursula. So let's talk about so you've just mentioned neuro linguistic programming kind of explain that a little bit. I just learned about that at a conference last year, I'd never really heard much about it.
Yeah, and LP is really the study of why successful people are successful in what they think about and how our thoughts fuel our actions and our ultimate results. And that when you change your thoughts, you can change your actions and your ultimate results. And there's a big difference between believing something like oh, I believe that I'm going to have a day or do I know it. And this isn't necessarily an NLP thing. But it's when you think about words and linguistics is because when you move from belief to knowing something, and expecting it to happen, your sales can go up much faster, or I know this person's going to become my new client. And that's because they're my top 10% a prospect I know we can solve their problem. So I'm coming from that place of knowing. And so in NLP, I love to use visualization, it's one of the things that they use, they teach a lot of and and we reverse engineer successes, because your subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between what you're visualizing if you're visualizing the future and bringing it into the now versus what's in front of you right now. And so that's a powerful technique. And we do a lot of that at our sales camp courses. And then second is the power of belief change. And that's one of the most powerful tools that I received in my NLP training went to the NLP as to California in San Francisco was how to change a belief. And I'll give you an example. I had a client one time who, in California, she had a business it was 500,000 a year and had been 500,000 for 20 years. And so when I met her, she said, I want to come sales camp, I want to coach with you. But she said there's something you should know. And I said, What's that? And she said, I hate sales people. And for me, you know, I'm also trained as a therapist, and I like have all these weird skills. And I was like ding ding ding, like that's where we have to go. And I asked her, I said, Well, what is it that you really want that you don't have right now? And she said, Well, I've had this business for 20 years to half a million dollars, I want a million dollar business. And right away, I knew that her belief about salespeople was stopping her. And so I asked her, I said, in your business, I said, who picks up the phone and follows up with leads that come in? She said I do. And I said who follows up with those leads and then asks for payment for your product? And she said I do. And I said then who supports the clients in the future as they come through? She said I didn't notice I never said sales, right? And so she kept saying I have news for you. Not only you are, are you a salesperson, but you're the top salesperson in your company. Now I had to do more work around that. To get her to be able to say I am a top salesperson she was she had built her entire company. And she had to release the beliefs around hating sales, people thinking they were greedy, thinking they just wanted money. Once she got rid of that limiting belief, her business skyrocket in a year and a half to $2 million business after 20 years of not. So we totally underestimate the power of one limiting belief and how it can stop us. Yeah,
that's so interesting. And I think that a lot of women struggle with that. Yes, because I think they don't want to be their own salesperson. But they are even you know, and it takes them a long time to realize where does those those beliefs come from those like in our society, I just feel like that's just something we've been told,
right? It is. Yeah, we our society is very negative about salespeople, no one wants to say they're a salesperson, right? Like, there's titles like I'm in business development, I'm always like, is that sales? And they'll say I do in marketing. And I'm like, but I think you sell. And so I was at an event yesterday that we were all talking and we were laughing about that, because they all had these interesting titles. They were all sales people or business owners. Yeah. And so I said, You're all sales professionals. And the sooner we start to own that, the better. Now it's interesting. In Minnesota, we actually have St. Kate's University. And they have a degree just in sales, not sales and marketing. And I had an opportunity speak to their sales alumni group. And it was incredible to hear the stories of the women and how they're being hired because they have a degree in sales. And so in my mind, they're starting to legitimize the industry of selling and make it a real career. Because think about think about all the people who are leaving college right now with these huge debt. And they don't have a clear career path. And for some of them, a sales career would be phenomenal. And they could pay their debt off, right? So if we had more opportunities for people learn, so you can go all the way to Harvard, and get your MBA and not have a class and just sales. We call it sales and marketing. But you and I both know those are two different they are very different. Yes, yes. And I have a gift for your client. Your list? Yes. Okay. So I want to help you shift this belief, right, especially the one that's most predominant is this one. I don't want to be pushy or salesy. So I want everyone to write this down. But if you're driving, wait, but I want you to write down I am a professionally persistent problem solver, your salesperson. And you are I am a professional, persistent problem solver. Because that's what salespeople are. That's really the definition. And when you can start to say I am a professional, persistent problem solver, then all of a sudden, who are you afraid to call? If you're just calling to solve people's problems, it becomes a lot easier. So a lot of our clients write it down. And they take that on. And obviously, it's a lot easier to pick up the phones. Oh, yeah.
Oh, that's great. I love that. And I think that people listening, I think that those words of encouragement, and that's why I love doing this podcast is I feel like people need to hear those messages more. And I think that our society is telling us one thing, but you have to listen to the right voices in your head as well. Like you need to actually hear the good messages. That's why people read wholesale health books. That's why they go to Tony Robbins, you know, like, like hearing those, those messages that are different than our society, I think are so important. So that's a really good I read a book by I've heard of Tanya veneer. Have you heard of her yet? So she had this book, and it was called mindset switch low. Perfect. It was literally like exactly what you're talking about, from from belief to? I think it was like thought to belief to, to, to what you say. So like what you say out loud? Yeah. And it starts with I think it starts with what you say, and I need to change the language and then it goes back and then it like, there's like that, that route back to where does that come from? Yeah, it sounds like it's NLP base, I think. Probably Yeah. I met her at a conference last year. And then like, started listening her podcast, and I read her book. And her book was really amazing. And it really changed a lot of things for me. But I think another thing, this, we can kind of finish the podcast with this because this is a kind of a huge topic is pricing. I think a lot of people struggle with confidence in what they're charging. And I think women tend to undersell a lot. Very Oh, what what are your thoughts on on how to be confident? And what your pricing? Yes,
yes. And I have a formula for you. So awesome. Yeah. So we have a lot of women who come to our courses and become our clients. And this is one of those things that we typically work on most of them if they're in a service based business need to double their prices, at least some quadruple some I I just start to cry. I'm like, how can you be in business like it? Yeah. And so here's that. So the guideline for pricing is really simple. And a coach gave this to me a long time ago. And it's just really served me well and serve my clients well. And what I want you to think about, so if you so for those who are listening, think about one service that you offer, or product. And I want you to think like what's the least amount you would charge for that service or product, the least amount, meaning you probably resent the client a little bit, you'd feel like you were giving something a little bit away, wouldn't feel great about it to the flip side of what's the most you would charge like the stretch where you would show up, like, on your A game ready to crush it for that client, like you would blow them out of the water, you would have 10 times the competence you have now. So imagine that price point. So notice the two prices and notice what popped into your mind. So lowest and highest. Okay, got those numbers? Because usually it's a number in between that you can safely get to right now. Okay, so some clients, so I have to stretch them because they give me numbers. I'm like, okay, you're still not there. Like let's do this again, right? But usually, so let's say it's like between 500 and $1,000, that someone wants to charge, you could probably get to 750 and be able to sell it confidently, and then over time continue to ramp up those prices.
That makes so much sense because I feel like you don't want to go one way the other. I do think the underselling but then there's also overselling where you're like, you're like no one ever is going to pay for that. I always get like, and I feel like my whole thing is skewed. Because I feel like I met so many people that sell at such different levels. You know, it's on like, what is the actual good price? Like I don't. And that's the other thing for me is what I do is so unique. It's hard to know what the value is. I think that's the struggle for me is what is the value of it for me? What am I? What do I feel like I'm giving out? Like, what, what do they get out of it? And what how to put a price on that. I think that's the hard part for me.
So I would think about the least, and then, like, go through that exercise and see what comes up. Because the thing you have to remember, Jenna is that no matter what, and for all your listeners, the pricing has to be in alignment with you. Like you have to stay in your own lane and go Alright, what's the least I would charge? What's the most that I would stretch to right now. And you're probably right. And then over time, you can expand it. And in the beginning, we probably all under charge and
over time catches up. For sure. I remember I think I I filmed a wedding. And I charged $250 That was my ever done before. So I felt like I was like I should make some money. But I also don't feel like I'm like a super expert. So I overtime did increase my prices. But it was it was like maybe someone right out of college wouldn't be able to afford three to 4000, which is like the average price of a videographer these days, you know, like but at the same time, I was like, I need to make something so I'm not gonna do for free just to get the experience, which I do think a lot of people do suffer free. Yeah, I think you should do it, not for free. But for a lower rate, if you're just getting started just to get some experience, but then again, slowly increase your prices as you get booked out. Right? You will,
right. But even notice the limiting beliefs about your college students have been able to pay because a lot of times, students their parents are paying a little jona they have money from college. They didn't spend who knows. Right? Yeah. And so it's so it's just a great example that for sure we all make up stories that may or may not be true.
Yeah. And I, I think I just have a lot of assumptions about their ego. And I think that's probably my limiting belief is I assume things about people, because it's how I think of myself. We all do. And then we project those beliefs on someone else. Yeah.
And you know, in our experience, we will tell you, I have been surprised so many times by people who have shown up to invest in our coaching programs that I thought like, would be the last person and I've been wrong so many times that I've had to stop
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 34:14
assuming things, and my other but
Ursula Mentjes 34:16
my team's like, okay, like whoever we're supposed to serve, is going to show up and let's not forget, yeah,
for sure. And I think I think that actually now that I think about that is probably my biggest struggle is I need to stop assuming. And that's a good breakthrough.
Unknown Speaker 34:31
Yeah, it was good. Because you're not the only one.
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 34:33
Yeah, and I think it's not so much I have no confidence in myself. It's I don't have confidence in the people that I'm working with having the money, you know, like, I it's almost like, I feel like, I am worth what I'm worth, but I feel like no one's gonna be able to afford it. I think that's my thought.
Ursula Mentjes 34:47
And I'm going to ask you a question. Yeah. What, what's potentially not true about that limiting belief that they can afford it? What's true, what's not
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 34:55
true? It's not true. I think I look at my own life. And I think that everyone's at the same boat as me. And I think I think that they have the same amount of money I do or the same, like way of spending as I do, because it's because I'm the kind of person who wouldn't spend a certain amount of money. And so then I assume everyone's like me. So it's almost like I because I'm an empath. And so I actually mirror a lot of the stuff that people come to me. So it's like, almost like I'm projecting the mirror on.
Ursula Mentjes 35:23
Yeah. And you probably are. So that's a great harness. So yeah, so it is great for all of our listeners, because the shift could be just to let them have their decision. Yeah,
exactly. It's not up to me, it's like, you can only put as much out into the universe as you can. And you can't expect anything. But you can't also like negate it either, right?
It's not going to happen, right? Like I'm a big believer in setting the goal, but not assuming you know, exactly, exactly. And so then you show up with an open mind, and you give people the options to purchase from you, and then let them decide. And so it sort of like cutting off. So you're not Yeah, in their energy, and letting them and
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 36:00
I think it's for me, it's cutting off the emotion to Yeah, I do think that I get so emotionally invested in it. That it's that it's hard for me to take myself out when it is when money is involved, because it's like I am so like, I want so much for them to feel the value that if I don't feel like I'm providing enough, I feel guilty. Yeah. And I feel like they spent too much on something that I don't think I provided enough for and I never want them to feel upset at me. So I think that's also a belief I have is, I feel like I should be giving, like over get over delivering
Ursula Mentjes 36:34
Yeah. And it's and I feel like I don't want them to come away, feeling like they wasted their money. I think that's something to that. So that's why like a lot of things I do I give like, I feel like I give away more than their than they expect. And which I think sometimes is good and bad. Well,
yeah, because it takes away the value of what you're actually delivering. Because you might be you might be surprised at how much they appreciate the services you deliver and not need all that extra stuff. And most people can't even take the extra mile to a shop. The more people pay us, the easier they are to coach. That's true. And the less time they take, and the less they want from us. And we've discovered that over time. So, I mean, anyway, we could talk about
that. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a good point. I never thought about it that way. Because because I feel like they want it all but maybe they don't. Maybe they don't maybe they
only need like they know what they need. And that percentage is more than enough. And part of that is believing that in yourself. Right? I am more Yeah, what I deliver is more than enough. And just letting it be. Yeah. I mean, I'm I think that is so helpful. Well, thank you so much. We you haven't written a bunch of books. I have one right in front of me. Where can we find these online? Sure. Go to Amazon. That's the easiest and fastest especially if you want to download and Kindle so there's the beliefs own selling with intention selling with synchronicity and one great goal. And then also, we have a free gift. If you go to sales coach now calm forward slash gift, there's a PDF on helping you sell more. So your wealth gonna go get that
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 38:00
free. And then you also have the podcast, so they're all on your website.
Ursula Mentjes 38:04
Yes. Double your sales. Now. You can find it there. It's also on iTunes, and
you're on Instagram, too. I'm on Instagram.
We have a big goal right now. So we just started Instagram not that long ago, and we don't have a lot of people. So come and find me Instagram. We're growing it fast. And it's got to be we got to get to that next level before my next book comes out. So
Jenna Redfield of Twin Cities Collective 38:22
yeah, yeah, this This podcast is the best way
to that's what we talked about.
Well, thanks for listening, and I'll talk to y'all next week.