Getting 1 Billion Art Video Views on Instagram, Diversifying Your Social Media Platforms & Dealing With Haters with Josie Lewis Art

An interview with Josie Lewis about how she accidentally went viral on instagram, speaking at TEDX, battling infertility, growing multiple platforms, engaging with haters & her future.

Josie Lewis is an artist working in Minnesota. Her current work spans many artistic media, including painting, mixed media, and video. She has artwork in the public collections of General Mills, UC Berkeley, The St Paul Regional Rail Authority, Minneapolis Public Schools and The Minneapolis/St Paul Airport. Lewis has a robust social media in Instagram, Facebook, and Pinterest, TikTok, and YouTube as @josielewisart with over 1 million unique followers and her videos have had more than 1 billion views. Her work has been featured by Design Sponge, Good Housekeeping, Elle Decor, Insider, My Modern Met, George Takei, Bored Panda, Mental Floss, Cosmopolitan, Spotlight, The Jealous Curator, and The National Endowment for the Arts. Her book, The New Color Mixing Companion, was released in 2018. She lives in the Twin Cities with her husband and daughter.

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Jenna Redfield is the leader of the Twin Cities Collective, the largest resource in the Twin Cities for bloggers, small business, entrepreneurs & creatives. She is a well known speaker, educator & social media strategist. You can work with her one on one with coaching and content creation (photo/video) services

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I'm so excited for today's guest. Her name is Josie Lewis, and she is an artist and welcome to the podcast. Hello. Hi. Hi. We have never met before, but I feel like we already know each other already best friends. Yeah, we've been talking for about five minutes. We're

Josie Lewis 1:43

both obsessed with social media. So oh my gosh, I'm gonna go for about five or six hours late,

Jenna Redfield 1:49

I'll be a producer. But I'm so excited because I've been like randomly audit off just like seeing your posts on social media for a long time. And I just randomly reached out said, Hey, podcast, like, you never know. I just got to reach out. And you said yes. So I'm really excited. Yep. So tell us a little bit about what you do and how so you're a painter? Yes, correct. Or Yes, paint. Explain what you do. Yeah,

Josie Lewis 2:14

I'm really working on my elevator pitch to describe what I do. And I it's been years that I've been working on it. I still don't have it. But I work with a lot of different artistic mediums to create color based work work, I would say so I have a painting a painting background. And I use a lot of heavily detailed components to create usually abstract

Jenna Redfield 2:37

composition. Yeah. And they're very like rainbow.

Josie Lewis 2:40

Yep, I use a lot of rainbow I fall back on the rainbow.

Jenna Redfield 2:42

I really like rainbow. I mean, it's fun and everyone it's recognizable. I guess Yes. It's kind of bright in this world of everything is gone black and white man in terms of fashion and it just kind of fun to see it on your feet just like this. And how do you come up? So like I'll just explain so you make these videos? Yes. That Are you basically time lapses of you painting or doing whatever like you're doing with with the is it paints? What is it like that you're using it's sometimes paint someone else's style. Sometimes it's resin? Someone else's collage. Okay. Yeah, just kind of different mediums. And you kind of time lapse them melting or you actually brushing and how did that get started? Like? Were you always an artist? How did all this happen? Yeah, yeah.

Josie Lewis 3:26

So my dad's an artist, so I came up as, as an art artsy person. And I knew pretty early on that I was creatively motivated, like, I love to play piano or write stories or do art. And then, when I was in my mid teens, I really was like, Nope, it's going to be art, you know, and I started, you know, really, really, I made art a lot like my dad's because that's what we do. We start, you know, like we were, we're influenced by the people around us. And then I, you know, went to college, I went to grad school, and was, you know, plugging, being a professional artists, which is no easy task, you know, that we're having a small business, and then also, being creative. And all those things together is, you know, it takes it takes some doing. And this is also, you know, I'm 43. So it was before the days of social Yeah, you know, because really, you know, when I was when I was starting out in my 20s, and then, and then a few years ago, I got married late in life and had a baby right away, and then tried to have a second child and, and descended into several terrible years of fertility issues, which I'm quite public about on my social, you know, so it's a kind of a part of my brand, maybe if it's something that I feel like the need to talk about, because when I was going through that I felt so much taboo. And it was like telling, you know, if you break your wrist, it's like, wow, what happened to your wrist, but it's like, if your insides are coming out, and they're a torpedo just blowing your life. You can't see saying this a miscarriage is like, I don't know, what does a you know, this is awkward, you know, so it felt that way with so many different people. But, you know, one in four pregnancies is a miscarriage, you know, so it's like, that's a lot. Yeah. Now, that happens to probably most women who have children, you know, like, you know, a large percentage. So, anyway, I'm going

Jenna Redfield 5:21

totally fine. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's been funny, like, just bringing that topic up. Like, I don't know, if you follow Jenna Kutcher at all. She's, she talks about that on her podcast. And, you know, there's I think it is becoming less taboo to talk about, especially with Instagram, I feel like Instagram has kind of made it a safe spot for people. Yeah, talk about it. Because there's so many. There's a lot of women on there and mom bosses, or stuff. Yeah. And I think I think just social media in general is helping people open up. So So you were doing art for like, were you selling art were you that was for how long? Like 10 years, or my whole my whole adult

Josie Lewis 5:51

life. You know, I went to college, I got a BFA, then I went to grad school at the University of Minnesota and got an MFA graduated in oh eight, married a few years after that had had our first child. And then, you know, things change when you have a kid. And then I went through all the health stuff with the fertility issues. And then I was feeling like, my art career was not ringing the bell that I was wanting to ring, you know, I didn't feel like I had my audience. And I was just discouraged. And this was hand in hand with all these pregnancy losses. So I'm guessing there was, you know, multiple things happening here, you know. And then when I finally know, after about three years of those losses, I also was feeling like I wasn't winning in my art career either. And there's a relationship between creating art and creating a human. And I just felt like, screw it.

Jenna Redfield 6:47

I'm done with all of this. I'm giving up. So what happened after that? Well, I quit.

Josie Lewis 6:51

Oh, you did? Yeah, I quit trying to have a kid and I quit trying to make art. But I actually let me rephrase that I quit trying to make art career. My husband had a good corporate job. I was hanging out with a kid, I knew I was a creative person. I didn't think it was like, Oh, that's it. I'm, you know, throwing in the towel, you know, but it was like, I don't think I don't think I have a place in this world. I don't know how it's gonna work. I've been trying and trying and I just don't feel like it's, I'm connecting.

Jenna Redfield 7:19

But when I was going through all that really hard stuff,

Josie Lewis 7:24

I found myself in the studio painting with watercolors, which had been a part of my practice on and off my entire life, but not acute was more like a sketchy material, you know, not like, the way that I would make my, you know, serious, important art, you know. And the reason I was doing that was because it was so therapeutic, I would go into like a flow state when I was painting these paintings, and I was literally just painting hexagons, I, you know, I'd have or circles or stripes. And I use the rainbow because it was like a pleasing and already determined palette. Yeah. So I didn't have to even think about colors. It was just like, I'm just going to do the rainbow because I love the spectrum. And I'm going to just paint these hexagons with the rainbow. And it's going to be super simple with watercolor. And I would go into like these crazy, it was like an altered state, you know, like, I just drop into these deep work deep work. Yep. I get into this the zones. And it was it was pharmaceutical almost, you know, like, I felt like I'd had a value of something, it was so powerful. So then I looked into it and discovered that what I was experiencing was something called flow, which is like a legitimate, you know, neurological, it's a brain changes, and it is an altered state. There's amazing and fascinating things that happen. Your brain during during those times, which I actually I just gave a TED talk. Oh, yeah. Yep. And I talked about the brain changes.

Jenna Redfield 8:49

Is that online yet, or? No? It's not up yet. But it will be in a couple months. Okay. Well, I just in my TED Talk audition for the amount of meat I lost. Yeah, we'll see. I haven't heard back. But it was interesting. Like, I never thought about, I'm only 28. So I'm like, What do I have to say? Like, in life,

Josie Lewis 9:07

I guess I just, I just like, I don't have enough life experience to give a TED talk, which is a kind of, in my mind, like your life thesis or something, you know, but how did that go? I was gonna ask you about great, amazing the support, especially around the team. I mean, everybody's a volunteer. Yeah. The president of the organization. Everybody's a volunteer, and the amount of labor and care and attention that they give to every every element of the event is just incredible. is so impressive, but I had a numerous coaching visits where they would listen to my material, and they'd get had professional coaches that were helping. I mean, it was it was so good. So good.

Jenna Redfield 9:45

I'm like nervous for either way. It goes, I'm nervous. And I get it. But I'm also really nervous to get it too because it's like, you know, and I can always audition if I don't get absolutely. Right. And I Yeah, and it's like now I know how the process works and stuff. So let's talk a little bit about how you got started on Instagram, then. Yes, social media.

Josie Lewis 10:04

Yeah, well, that the this part of my story kind of segues to that because I was making these super simple watercolors. I had a couple hundred Instagram followers, that were my friends, I knew them, every single one. And I would you know, post the standard Instagram fair of coffee and feed on the beach and my kid and my dog, you know, and occasionally some throw some art in there. But it was just personal, you know? And then I posted a video I just randomly recorded a time lapse, like what would happen if I think I did a stop more stop motion video or something like that, which I'd never done. I didn't have any background in film. Yeah. And it went viral. at it, you know, I think I got like, 20,000 views or something. And I fully expected I was going to get 32 views. So you know, 20,000 was like, wow, like, what's happening? So I thought it was a fluke. So I I posted another video, this isn't the beginning of 2017.

Jenna Redfield 11:00

Gosh, that's crazy. That wasn't that long. No.

Josie Lewis 11:02

Wow. Nope. No 2017. And it was right when Instagram had had released video as a true component. And you know, in in Instagram, it's a 60 seconds or less prior to HGTV. And so I I kind of jumped on that train, it was the right time at the right place. Because I there were other artists that were doing time lapse, but there was something about my work that just really had a wide appeal. And so within the first couple months, I gained six figures, followers, like it was really, really fast. And then it's been growing pretty steadily ever since. That's

Jenna Redfield 11:38

crazy. So did you like did that change your business and everything? Like how did that affect your life? Yeah, like, did you go back into art? And like what had to happen? Yeah, well, it kind of Yeah, it kind of did. It was like, Okay, well, I thought I was going to quit being an artist. But

Josie Lewis 11:57

this is so interesting. I was so curious. Like, why? Why did this? Why is this happening? I mean, it pulled me back. Yeah. Because I'm I'm a kind of wired to be an achiever. I'm an anagram three. I'm a two. You're a two. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 12:11

that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield 12:15

I on that we had an expert on the podcast. And we thought, Yeah,

Josie Lewis 12:17

I will. Yeah. So first, the graham three, we really care about adding value to people. And so for me, I think the reason that I decided to quit being an artist is that I didn't feel like I was adding any value and, and then suddenly, I appeared to be adding value. Because I'm, you know, social media, which I hadn't considered really as a as a venue. And then, and then I was, you know, hearing two things over and over. One was that people were having a therapeutic response to my work. So it was almost like they had a mini flow from my flow session. So I'd paint a painting in an hour just like soporific like a pill, you know, and then I shrink it down to 45 seconds, and people were like, I watch your videos before I have to take an exam, or before I go to bed, or when I have an anxiety tag, or, I mean, these really amazing things that I was hearing from people. And then the other thing that I was hearing, what you just said, before we started recording, is your videos make me feel like maybe I could make something. And so I have now, I have now 100% certain that most people on the planet are art curious. And for whatever reason, you know, maybe its cultural, or they have an art scar from when they were younger, they think they're not talented, or it's the the, you know, the challenges to get into some sort of creative arts, it could be dance, it could be painting, it could be singing, you know, there's lots of different ways to go about it. But it the challenges is too intimidating. And people aren't like willing to make the leap. And then when you have, there's plenty of like Stone Cold experts that are, you know, amazing performers, musicians, or dancers or artists, that doesn't make it any easier. Because you you watch these people on social especially. And it's like, I could never do that, you know, so then something about what I do. Because I'm just painting the hexagons, and I'm just using the rainbow, like, gives people an invitation like, Oh, that's so beautiful. I could paint diamonds, you know, I could buy some Crayola watercolors and, and sit at my kitchen table and make some art. And so I feel really excited, and almost parental for those people, you know, like,

Jenna Redfield 14:30

kind of how I feel about social media, and what's this collective, like, I want people to see that they can also be social media. Yeah. And make it like, whatever their passion is, they can do that for a living, because I wanted to ask you about doing art and just do any type of artistic thing as a business versus a passion. Because I think the hardest part about it, is that making money from it. And I think how, once this Instagram has blown up, do you then turn that back into a business? Or do you just still keep it as passion? Like how like what was and then how has that changed in terms of Do you sell things? Are you answered? Like, is it now the social media? That's the business or is it the art?

Josie Lewis 15:10

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's pretty much the ball game right there. All of those questions, I asked myself every single day, like, what am I doing? How do I want to structure this? How do I make money? Yeah, I do make money. Yeah. But it's,

it's like marketing has to be a part of what I do, which is different than just I'm going to post some cool videos that I like, you know, because if you are going to sell something, you have to sell it and discovering Yeah. And so then that's just a matter of mentioning like, Hey, I have you know, right now I have a watercolor set that people can buy. It's my custom colors. And they're professional watercolors, but they're reasonably priced and that it's limited edition. But they don't sell unless I mentioned them, you know, like, yeah, so I have to, you know, and then I don't want to be annoying.

Jenna Redfield 15:56

Exactly. It's that balance of how often do you talk about it vs. So one of this has been like a thing in my life, too. Because sometimes I'm like, oh, people, I forget people don't know what I do. Yeah, beyond Yes, hosting, right. And people think I make money by posting on Instagram. And I feel like people probably think that about YouTube. But no, you have to actually sell something. Yes. Pay, you know, to pose a single dollar. Yeah. So sometimes people don't understand that the more followers you have does not equal more money. Nope. You have a bigger audience to sell to that makes a difference. Yep. is like if you have 100 followers, your audience is limited to will know about it. But the bigger the audience, the more basically lead you. Yeah, that's kind of really the only difference. Yes. So there are people out there I know that have 100,000 followers, and maybe they're just like a meme account, and they don't make any money because it's just posting randomly. They just have a huge following. It's when you start to change that and promote things when you actually make money. Yeah, I think there I think I just need to say that out loud. Yeah. Because I think there's a misconception about the influencer. Yes, word and I feel that way. Like, I'm we're at what 15,000 so it's not like that big compared to some you know, but I feel like people still look at you. And you're like, all they're probably making a million dollar. Yeah. Like, it's just like in people's head. They equate the two and sometimes I do too is some of these people like I see in LA. I'm like, they have a million subscribers. They must be a millionaire by now or something. Yeah, but so

Josie Lewis 17:17

you sell your I have paint sets. And then I have what I find sells for me on instagram are things that I can produce fairly inexpensively that I can sell for less than a few dollars, or I do prints. The other thing that I found, and you know, this, this might just be me. I mean, I don't know anybody else's business. So I'm not sure of how it works for other people. But I find that episodic sales work really well. What do you mean by that? it like a weekend only?

Jenna Redfield 17:47

Oh, like, like, like, yeah, like a random?

Josie Lewis 17:50

Yeah, it's a pop, it's a pop up. I've got you know, I make these resin dishes that are I call them Petri because they look like petri dishes. And, you know, they're under, well, under $100. But if I have them just up on the website, even if I mentioned them from time to time, they don't necessarily sell but if I say you know, maybe three times a year, and then you know, Christmas, those are, you know, I'll do like July 1, we've got two days of patriots only happening right now. You know, and then that will that will catapult people into like, Oh, yeah, I've been watching those one, you know, yeah. As opposed to, it's always

Jenna Redfield 18:28

going to be there. It's like a trigger. It's like, it's getting people. That's why sales work. I mean, getting people to take action. Yeah. So do you didn't do anything locally? Like do you do any like other pop ups or do any art fairs or anything

Josie Lewis 18:41

for a long time, I had a studio space at the Northwest King building up, I've been there. And I would break even on rent. Okay. And I liked it. But it ended up being so much work to get everything up and ready. And then sit gallery city was twice twice a year major events and gallery setting. And I loved you know, talking to humans, but I would I was finding that I could do a weekend sale from home and make six times as much money and not have to do all the work.

Jenna Redfield 19:14

Yeah, well, that's the difference between online. Yeah, it's like there is a lot more people. Yeah. And so the new ship all of you.

Josie Lewis 19:20

Is it straight drop ship drop

Jenna Redfield 19:23

shipping. Okay, I was gonna ask because I was, you know, there's a lot of people listening that probably sell products and like, just knowing Okay, well, what's the best thing for them? You know, is it these local fairs? Or is it you know, doing it at, you know, out of Etsy or, you know, there's like, a lot of different options. Now, for people that make art. Do you do like, did you do artwork and all that stuff?

Josie Lewis 19:42

That's what I was doing. I did that for years and years and tell it probably was about a year and a half ago that I let my studio space go.

Jenna Redfield 19:48

Wow. And you work from home then now?

Josie Lewis 19:50

Yeah, I have. Yeah, I have a home studio.

Jenna Redfield 19:52

Gotcha. And so I want to talk a little bit about, like your growth on Instagram, because like, it kind of seemed to be a vital thing. Yes. So was there any strategy though, beyond just like keeping doing the same thing? Or how did that change over time?

Josie Lewis 20:08

Well, when I talked to people, I was just talking to a friend yesterday who has a gardening channel, and she's, you know, trying to grow it and I geek out, of course. So I'm like, let me talk to you for an hour and a half. And I will tell you everything I know. Yeah. And then I will send you notes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I mean, there's, I think I think I have four basic things that I tell people one is consistency, like, start before you're ready. Actually, that might be number two. But consistency is like you different socials have different shelf life for their content. So YouTube is different than Instagram, but on Instagram, it's daily, you know, it really has to be daily. And and then, you know, kind of playing along with all the things that they're launching. So you do the stories and drop an HGTV every once in a while. And, you know, those sorts of things that just keeps you you know, reply to your dm. Actually, I'm getting ahead of my point. So the number one is consistency. Number two is start before you're ready, you don't need to do four years of training to like figure out how to take a photo or a flat lay or a video. I mean, there's so many tools out there, you just need to do it. You know, like, just try it. And the worst that happens is someone that follows you gasp gas as a side note. So right now I have about I think about 470,000 followers on one account. Now I have several accounts. So the only reason I say that is because it's like, Ooh, that's half almost half a million people. It's amazing. There are times when I will lose 1000 people a day. Wow. So I just want to say that like, you know, I do gain. Yeah. And sometimes the gains are real slow, because I'm losing I'm losing so many people and I don't know why it's like that. And people are Yeah, they said they signed up for with me for something and then I turned out to be something else and they and they unfollow there might be people that are on a constant follow unfollow. Yeah, who knows? You know, like, and it took me a while to just like, woman up, you know, like, Oh, well, yeah, you know, those are not my people

Jenna Redfield 22:10

know exactly what I do that when people unsubscribe from my email to Yeah, is Yeah, they weren't my right person. Right. And they need this information. And, you know, certainly not gonna spend any money. Exactly. And it's not gonna hire you. I think it's harder the less people you have. Yeah, because it shows up more. But when you're at a certain like, once you hit a certain thousand, it, you can't see that you can't see it. Yeah. So I think that is harder. I think it hits smaller accounts more. So once you hit a certain level, I think most people stop caring for the most part. And now and now Instagram potential is getting rid of likes to hear about that. Yeah. Which I kind of like, I mean, I wonder if they'll get I don't think they'll get rid of views for like videos. But I think they're getting rid of likes, which I pro and con, right, like pro it's it helps you see don't feel that pressure. But con, it's like a bait kind of levels everyone out,

Josie Lewis 22:59

you know, well, they're not getting rid of the algorithm. No. So no matter what that's, you know, it's like I don't think likes matter that much, except that they impact the algorithm.

Jenna Redfield 23:08

I'm wondering if people will like less Oh, that's my thing is like it won't like right, it doesn't show up like wide like something. But I do think the more you like something, the more it'll show up in your feed. Because you're telling you. This is the content I like Yeah. So I encourage everyone to still like especially comment, because that's really what people that's what I look at. Yeah, versus likes. Like, I would rather get a nice comment. Oh, I was going to ask you, you do this thing where you? There's haters. Yes. Yes. What is it? Like? How are people haters of you? I first of all, I cannot understand that

Josie Lewis 23:41

I am endlessly delighted by the fact that I am somehow controversial. I don't do all the things in the world to get worked up about rainbow painting seem to make the list so

Jenna Redfield 23:52

so you just kind of like call people out on your stories like how, like, what, what has been the reaction to that?

Josie Lewis 24:00

Well, I you know, there's all sorts that, you know, once again, like, I I've had more than a billion views. So that pulls out everybody out of the woods. Yeah, that's, you know, everybody comes out of the woodwork for that. Yeah. And, and it's so then it's like, oh, well, here's the challenge. You know, a lot of people I'm sure they're very wise, just delete and move on. And some of them I mean, some of them are just like, too rude and too ridiculous. And I do that, you know, I delete and move on. But some of them are just ignorant, or they're funny. I mean, not or they always are funny, you know. And so then I have my way of dealing with my haters is through humor. And I'm not trying to be mean, you know, so I'll eliminate their names. I don't want anyone to get stalked or you know, because my follow up my fans will like get worked. Oh, wow.

Josie Lewis 24:49

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. So it's almost like, I mean, here's the word to the wise. If I get somebody popping into my feed, and they're like, this is an art, my kid could do that. And I just leave it, then I'll get 30 comments from my fans. Who are you know, like, You're ridiculous. That's the dumbest thing I've ever done. As soon as my fans actually are a little too intense. And I'm like, Okay, guys. descent is fine. But you know, like, but what I mean, that's algorithm boost right there, you know, so I'm like, no news is bad news. You know, a little controversy is controversy is good.

Jenna Redfield 25:27

How do you moderate that, then? Like, do you ever block people? Or like, do you the only comment? The

Josie Lewis 25:33

only the only people I've ever blocked are individuals who sent me pictures of their various body parts? Yes, that's it. That's the only the only ones I've lost

Jenna Redfield 25:42

centers if you don't like have a dope, and what are the what are the like, what's a memorable one that happened? Where you're like, how did that happen? Like, why did they think that way or funny or something that happened? Where it was a comment, you're just like, like, That's weird.

Josie Lewis 25:57

You know what I get? It's like, they kind of all blend together. But what I generally get is people telling me that I'm wasting art supplies. Oh, and then that I'm doing it wrong. Those are the two things that I hear. And I think and those those originate maybe because, you know, I I use acrylic paint sometimes and I use a lot of it like I really I really love the sensuality of material. And I love to push it further than maybe are used to seeing it. Yeah, you know,

Jenna Redfield 26:24

so art, like in my head, you know? Exactly. I mean,

Josie Lewis 26:28

yeah, have you wandered into an art museum where there's like a mattress leaning up against a wall can spray paint and that's

Jenna Redfield 26:35

wasting a mattress, right? Yeah,

Josie Lewis 26:36

exactly. Like, welcome to the world friends. You know, like, it seems ridiculous to me that

Jenna Redfield 26:42

I think people just want to complain about something. Yeah. And then you just kind of like have to poke fun down a little bit. Like, whenever somebody leaves somewhat of a negative comment. It could just be like, I don't know, their opinion. Like I usually try to like make it super, super positive. Yes. That was such a great comment. Yes, I do. Yeah. So glad you brought that up. And I'd like say like YX opposite. Yeah. Like it makes a person be like, Oh, yeah, like they're being nice. I don't want to be mean anymore. You know? Yeah, stop that negative vibe. And I try not to attract a negative vibe. Like, I put a bunch of positivity out. You think that with you with the positive? Yeah. Rainbow to attract and mostly does? Yeah, obviously. There's some people, there's people that are not dark headspace sound like anything nice and good is bad or something. I don't know. I think that's all it like I just seeing that you've posted about that. That's so funny. So then now also, you've been doing some videos. Were you talking? Yes. When did you start doing that?

Josie Lewis 27:32

I've been doing that for about a year and a half because I wanted to kind of dip into YouTube a little bit. And YouTube has been a little bit more of a struggle. Let's just say.

Jenna Redfield 27:41

Yeah, I could see. I think it's because your videos are so quick. Yeah. And I think it's just kind of a scroll thing versus having to go look for it on YouTube. Yeah, it's more of a search. Well, it's a rebranding, too.

Josie Lewis 27:52

Yeah. Because people love my fast and colorful paint videos. And then if I'm standing there talking about

Jenna Redfield 28:00

it's but it's re adjusting your fan base. Yes, you might gain some new fans for you. Yes. What happened with me on today's collective is I didn't put my face on the feed fuck a year. Yeah. And then once you start putting your face on, there you are even on stories. Yeah, it's kind of like seeing the person behind me. Yes.

Josie Lewis 28:17

Yeah. And that's, and that's the pivot that I'm in right now. So it's, you know, like, looking forward to the next, you know, year of social. Well, first of all, I think, here's my looking into my crystal ball. I think that what's going to happen with Instagram, it might take a little while. But I think that people especially Millennials are kind of over the super glossy feeds. And of course, those are those lifestyle accounts are the ones that are making money from affiliates. But I think it's like it got it just got so glossy and professional and saturated and and inauthentic. That now you know, some of the really, really hot millennial accounts, like maybe they're musicians or something that are famous in another world too. But they'll they'll post these like blurry pictures of their cat. And it's it's like, they're almost like trying to like reverse engineer that. That super action. Yeah, the perfectionism that kind of developed over over time. So I think it's at an Apogee, I think it's at an at an apex, and I know blah, blah, blah, Authenticity, but like authenticity, and just being real and not, you know, you don't have to go get the super expensive DSL, our camera or the professional photoshoot to get some, you know, like portraits and whatever you can you, you really can bring your bring your own makeup face, you know, and just be like, Hey, this is me. And this is what I'm thinking about today. I've noticed that

Jenna Redfield 29:47

too, over time. And I think it has a lot to do with the caption. Also, I think the captions are being more vulnerable. Yes. And it's not so much like, look at my life. It's you're like, Hey, I my kid had a nosebleed today. And like, we're in the hospital, you know, like I I feel like, especially moms, I think are more open. Yeah. And I think that once you have children, you kind of I hate to say stop caring about the world. But I feel like you're, you're not really trying to impress anyone anymore. You're just trying to keep your child alive, you know? And it's just like, I feel like people like the impressed like the impressing of others. kind of goes away a little bit. That's just what I see. I don't have kids. But like, that's just what I assume happens is it's kind of like, you're too busy to really care about the opinions of others.

Josie Lewis 30:28

Yeah, that might be true, except there's a lot of mommy bloggers that.

Listen, you have four kids, and the bikini body bad and the house at Taco and a really nice clean kitchen. Like, I'm not buying

Jenna Redfield 30:44

Yeah, yeah, there's, I think

Josie Lewis 30:46

I think there's perfectionism is perfectionism. Like, it's there. Yeah,

Jenna Redfield 30:50

I posted this on Facebook. But like, there was a very viral Facebook post about this woman who was at a pool with her kid. And they were just taking photoshoot the whole time, and she wouldn't allow her kid to go swimming. And so they were wearing matching swimsuits. And this other mom was sitting there watching this and posted about it. And she's just like, that shouldn't be like, the way that she's like, I could just see what what this Instagram post is going to look like. And it's this, you know, these perfect matching, you know, but it's not real. It's like a setup. And then the child is actually affected by it. Yeah. And so I was like that. So that story has stuck with me, because I'm like, I don't ever want to become that way anyone should know. And it's like, you know, there's a difference between living your life authentically and living your life for show on Instagram. Yeah, like, I think that's kinda what you're saying, too, is people are trying to get away from that faintness. Yep.

Josie Lewis 31:41

I've been thinking this thought came to me today. So it's not fully, you know, like, worked out. But I've been thinking there's a difference between entertainment and art. And I think that if we're following trends, we will be in the entertainment area. And if we're being authentically who we are, and carving down to our individual, true selves, and our true north and our true calling, which, by the way, doesn't have to be art, it could also be your business or your you know, service to the world, whatever it is, you know, like, if we just try to do what the people are liking, we might create really good entertainment. And I'm not opposed to entertain. But I think that for a fully lived life, we need to be on the art side and kind of try to ignore entertainment. Yeah. And so that's one of the things that I'm thinking about, just because I have a lot of data for what's popular. Yeah, but that isn't necessarily what I want to keep doing. No, all the time. I mean, you know, it's there's a, there's a balance.

Jenna Redfield 32:42

I also think for you having a popular count without people knowing your face. Yes, can be a chill if something happens, and you lose all your followers. Yeah, have you built any day? Because it's kind of like building it on quicksand. So I think by you putting your face out there and building a brand for your name, I think it's really good step because I think then you can move to another account maybe just for you, or whatever. Like I just think you have more options that way. And I think a lot of people are realizing that is like you know, just because you haven't a popular Instagram account doesn't always mean know

Josie Lewis 33:14

something. I had an account on Tick tock, which is like a Yeah, app for the young kids. Yeah. And I love Tick Tock Actually, I have almost a million followers on my gosh, I know. It's crazy. What?

Jenna Redfield 33:25

I didn't know I'm not really okay. I would love to talk about Tick Tock because I I am not on it.

Josie Lewis 33:30

Tick Tock. it's it's a it's a unique It's a unique and,

Jenna Redfield 33:34

and I do love it. It's like vine meets Instagram and Snapchat,

Josie Lewis 33:37

like, Yeah, it is. For those that don't know what Tick Tock is, it's the biggest app, the most downloaded app in the world bigger than Facebook and Instagram. And it started about a year ago, although it was a Chinese company, and they had it as a different name. But it really started picking up speed in the West about a year ago as technically was

Jenna Redfield 33:59

purchased by kind of merged them.

Josie Lewis 34:01

Yep. And then it's 14 second vertical video I didn't realize was 14 second, 14 seconds. And that way you can do longer video, but they you can add music to it. And the music limit is 14 seconds. Okay, so it sort of started as a lip synching app, but now it's just like funny little skits and funny memes. And for me, I just post my art videos. Yeah.

Jenna Redfield 34:23

And do you post the same things you post on Instagram?

Josie Lewis 34:25

Yeah, I use a lot of the same content. Okay. Yeah, but I remaster it. Gotcha.

Jenna Redfield 34:29

is a younger audience. Oh, yes. Yes. It's like a lot of teenagers. Yeah,

Josie Lewis 34:32

a lot of teenagers. And so what the story I was going to tell about Tick Tock because I had 500,000 followers, and my account got hacked. And I lost it all. Oh, my gosh. And so it was it was a great come to Jesus. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Josie Lewis 34:49

I mean, I've always known that diversification was important, which is why I'm on Facebook, Pinterest and YouTube. And, you know, and I try to I try to like multipurpose my content. Because there's only so many hours, you know, but, but that was like a great like,

Jenna Redfield 35:06

okay, like, I think it happened that happened with a local food blogger. She had like, 80,000. And she lost it. Which is, I mean, for food like around here. That's a lot. Yeah. I think she got it back. But it was just like, for a couple months. Yeah. Did it did like formerly, yeah, had this mountain. She had like, maybe 1000. You know, so it's like, it's like health. I think the biggest thing is how quickly you can gain it back. Yeah. Is how like prevalent you are and how so by posting on Instagram and saying like, Oh, come on, man. Tick Tock like does that bring people over? Like just knowing your effect on people and whether or not they will follow you to different platforms? It obviously seems like they do. Yep. So a lot of people, how did you grow on Tick Tock versus Instagram? Was it like just the same content? And you kind of went viral again? or What did you bring people over?

Josie Lewis 35:52

I you know, it's such a young audience that I actually think that each group of audience is pretty native to so interesting. And in fact, they have different preferences. I'm finding, you know, so like, the stuff that trends really well on Pinterest is not trending well, and Instagram, and the stuff that the the tick tock folks like is different, you know, so it's, it's just it's always a work in progress to figure out

Jenna Redfield 36:15

yeah, that's so I'm just so fascinated, and I needed to get someone on talk about Tick tock, because I, I feel like a lot of people are scared because it is such a young, young person's platform that is like, what do I put on there? You know, but the fact that you already had content that I think is for all ages is really cool. Yeah, I can just translate that. Yeah. I just think it's the people that are like over 30 that are like, like, I don't like it's an entertainment app, almost. And so that's the other part of it that it's like, it's like people want to laugh or they want to be entertained, I guess. And that's where I think it's kind of I would see it as the new vine. Yeah, for sure. Which I loved watching vine. I don't know why I haven't really gotten into Tick tock, but I sometimes see it like on Twitter. Yeah. And YouTube. So I see. I see. TechCrunch on like Instagram. Yeah. So it's like, I feel like I'm already watching them. But yeah, not on the app itself. But yeah,

Josie Lewis 37:05

and I, you know, I'm not a very much of a curmudgeon about the social media world that we live in, because I'm, it's my it's your life, and it's my life and my job. And you know, and I really enjoy it. I'm more of a producer than a consumer. Yeah, so that's something but I'm on there a lot. So I'm aware of what's happening. And that's part of my research as as a as it being my job. You know, like, I kind of need to know what's happening. And one of the things that I really like about Tick Tock is it is you know, it's the young kids, it's maybe college or high school age, but what they'll do is they'll do these, like incredibly complicated dances or lip syncs to something where you can tell, you know, they'll get four people together, and you can tell they rehearsed it. And you know, that they rehearsed it for four hours. Yeah. And then they figured out how to film it. And they get did something interesting with the placement of the phone. I mean, they, they're there many, you know, George Lucas says,

Jenna Redfield 38:00

I think the thing is that nowadays, they're they've grown up since they were a baby. Yes. It's like they've been on a train their whole life. Like, I think they said, like, the number one job of like, elementary school kids was like to be a YouTuber, like, that's their number, to be fireman. And right after now, it's like YouTube. So like these kids, they've grown up in social media. So they just want to be like, everyone, it seems like everyone does. Like, you're like, my generation, your generation. We kind of like didn't get it until we were older. So like, some people clapped on because that's their personality. But some people just like, Mike, my parents, they don't really like using Facebook. Are they not? My dad's on an inch screen? Oh, like they're not on it? So I think it depends on the person. But it also depends on how you're raised in your generation, too. Yes, I don't know. I just will. I will see what Tick Tock so I maybe I should join it. Maybe I'll join it today. I'll start following you. Well, I think we're going to kind of sum up here with the podcast. So is there any, like last minute advice for people if maybe they're trying to grow their Instagram? Or? I know, you kind of have learned some things. Any other last tips besides those ones you shared earlier?

Josie Lewis 39:03

Yeah. I mean, I can never say it enough. And this applies to me too. And that start before you're ready? Do it now. Do it today. And then you'll you'll grow your learn. And you can always go back and delete post later true, or, or keep them

Jenna Redfield 39:17

because then you'll see how much you've grown. Yep, that happened with some people that I have asked that for people. And they're like, Yeah, I just like to you can scroll all the way back and see Yeah, yeah, the not so great photos I started with, but I think that's a great tip to just get started. And, you know, try it because you won't learn until you try it. Absolutely. Now, you won't learn your mistakes. Right? Right.

Josie Lewis 39:35

And that's the same thing with arts, you know, you'll never, you know, if you want to be artistic, or you want to try out some creative endeavor, you need to just start doing it. Because the way you'll respond to the material and the way the material will respond to you. It only can happen over time. It's It's a miracle that it only happens in the scope of like being with the material. And the same thing is true. What you know, if you think of a brand on Instagram as a art, it only can happen over time. True.

Jenna Redfield 40:05

That is true. Yeah, you can go viral, but people won't get into the consciousness of exactly yet. Over time, you will work but well, how do we find you on all of these different apps? Are you?

Josie Lewis 40:15

Yeah, I'm the same. I'm Josie Lewis art. And it's JOSIUJOSIELEWIS

art or Josie lei wise art.

Some people thought it was, which I really like.

Jenna Redfield 40:29

Interesting. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, that's so funny. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure. I'll talk to you all next week.